Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 18 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 09-29-2014, 11:15 AM   #391
DeanT
Registered User
 
DeanT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,962
Churchill Downs meet down 16%, Kentucky Downs meet up 24%.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story...line/16422321/
DeanT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 11:21 AM   #392
alydar
Registered User
 
alydar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 677
Seems to be related to many factors, takeout being one. The field size and quality of racing were significant reasons as well.
alydar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 11:48 AM   #393
OTM Al
intus habes, quem poscis
 
OTM Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 9,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by alydar
Seems to be related to many factors, takeout being one. The field size and quality of racing were significant reasons as well.
The cards at KD were just better. They also had stakes races people wanted to see. The one weekend CD had stakes and KD didn't, CD did much better. It seems people want marquee cards. Parx crushed all records on PA Derby day even with their extremely high takeout.
OTM Al is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 06:29 PM   #394
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
I love the punishment we are dishing out, i haven't bet a CD race in quite a while, and i used to shove money thru the windows at that place on a regular basis.
Fock M. I haven't wagered a dime there since the Derby. Rot in hell CD.
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 08:37 PM   #395
Cholly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
Fock M. I haven't wagered a dime there since the Derby. Rot in hell CD.
don’t love CDI either; supported the boycott; and when it was announced they were shopping the Fair Grounds (and probably Arlington also), my first thought was “don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out”. But on further thought, I’ve come around to a different take-away on any satisfaction I may get from that last one.

The red herring that gets bandied around is “CDI would rather be a gaming company than a racing company”--that’s bullshit. What they’d rather be is a gaming company AND a racing company...as long as they can make any money at them. The synergies of being horizontally integrated across both industries are obvious.

These may not be people you’d want to share a beer with, but they’re not idiots--au contraire’. Selling Hollywood at a real-estate top was a shrewd move for a property destined to become a land-deal. With Calder, they were always going to be breathing Gulfstream’s fumes, and sharp corporations get out when they see they have no chance at being a market leader.

But the Fair Grounds is a different circumstance altogether. It comes with the gaming rights they crave; and it’s in a market where they are the leader. But in spite of these advantages, the cold-blooded corporate analysis reveals this asset (owning a race track) to be a dog that needs to be shed from the balance sheet...and despite any personal animosity I may hold for CDI, this a sobering realization.

If you saw the movie Llewyn Davis, there’s a great scene where he travels from Greenwich Village to Chicago trying to land a gig/recording contract with a music bigshot there. Davis reaches down and lays his guts out with a song that sent shivers down Cholly’s spine. The impresario takes it in, and then stares at Davis. The wheels are spinning upstairs, but he never flinches any facial muscle in the slightest. After several minutes of this dead-pan expression, he finally speaks. “I don’t see any money in this”, gets up, and walks out.
Cholly is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 08:42 PM   #396
Stillriledup
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
don’t love CDI either; supported the boycott; and when it was announced they were shopping the Fair Grounds (and probably Arlington also), my first thought was “don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out”. But on further thought, I’ve come around to a different take-away on any satisfaction I may get from that last one.

The red herring that gets bandied around is “CDI would rather be a gaming company than a racing company”--that’s bullshit. What they’d rather be is a gaming company AND a racing company...as long as they can make any money at them. The synergies of being horizontally integrated across both industries are obvious.

These may not be people you’d want to share a beer with, but they’re not idiots--au contraire’. Selling Hollywood at a real-estate top was a shrewd move for a property destined to become a land-deal. With Calder, they were always going to be breathing Gulfstream’s fumes, and sharp corporations get out when they see they have no chance at being a market leader.

But the Fair Grounds is a different circumstance altogether. It comes with the gaming rights they crave; and it’s in a market where they are the leader. But in spite of these advantages, the cold-blooded corporate analysis reveals this asset (owning a race track) to be a dog that needs to be shed from the balance sheet...and despite any personal animosity I may hold for CDI, this a sobering realization.

If you saw the movie Llewyn Davis, there’s a great scene where he travels from Greenwich Village to Chicago trying to land a gig/recording contract with a music bigshot there. Davis reaches down and lays his guts out with a song that sent shivers down Cholly’s spine. The impresario takes it in, and then stares at Davis. The wheels are spinning upstairs, but he never flinches any facial muscle in the slightest. After several minutes of this dead-pan expression, he finally speaks. “I don’t see any money in this”, gets up, and walks out.
But isn't part of the gaming dependent on the fact that there's racing attached? People will say they're sabotaging the racing so its a money loser and when it becomes a money loser, they can say to state govt "lets keep the gaming and get rid of the track"
Stillriledup is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 08:46 PM   #397
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
But isn't part of the gaming dependent on the fact that there's racing attached? People will say they're sabotaging the racing so its a money loser and when it becomes a money loser, they can say to state govt "lets keep the gaming and get rid of the track"
That's exactly what they are doing and I Hate them for it. Fock M.
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 08:50 PM   #398
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
don’t love CDI either; supported the boycott; and when it was announced they were shopping the Fair Grounds (and probably Arlington also), my first thought was “don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out”. But on further thought, I’ve come around to a different take-away on any satisfaction I may get from that last one.

The red herring that gets bandied around is “CDI would rather be a gaming company than a racing company”--that’s bullshit. What they’d rather be is a gaming company AND a racing company...as long as they can make any money at them. The synergies of being horizontally integrated across both industries are obvious.

These may not be people you’d want to share a beer with, but they’re not idiots--au contraire’. Selling Hollywood at a real-estate top was a shrewd move for a property destined to become a land-deal. With Calder, they were always going to be breathing Gulfstream’s fumes, and sharp corporations get out when they see they have no chance at being a market leader.

But the Fair Grounds is a different circumstance altogether. It comes with the gaming rights they crave; and it’s in a market where they are the leader. But in spite of these advantages, the cold-blooded corporate analysis reveals this asset (owning a race track) to be a dog that needs to be shed from the balance sheet...and despite any personal animosity I may hold for CDI, this a sobering realization.

If you saw the movie Llewyn Davis, there’s a great scene where he travels from Greenwich Village to Chicago trying to land a gig/recording contract with a music bigshot there. Davis reaches down and lays his guts out with a song that sent shivers down Cholly’s spine. The impresario takes it in, and then stares at Davis. The wheels are spinning upstairs, but he never flinches any facial muscle in the slightest. After several minutes of this dead-pan expression, he finally speaks. “I don’t see any money in this”, gets up, and walks out.
Besides being my favorite track, Emerald downs can be respected why? Because the owner built and opened the track with his own dollars. Why did he do it? Because HE loves horse racing. When longacres closed to become..... nothing, he took action and built Emerald downs.

He refuses to ask for sluts, I'm sorry, slots as he doesn't want his track to be dependent on them. He went to the Muckleshoot tribe and made an arrangement. Give us a few bucks for each purse and we will not apply for a slot license. In return the Muckleshoot tribe gets advertising as well from Emerald Downs.

That is an operation I respect and want to support. Not these corporate slime dogs.
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 09:00 PM   #399
jballscalls
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
Besides being my favorite track, Emerald downs can be respected why? Because the owner built and opened the track with his own dollars. Why did he do it? Because HE loves horse racing. When longacres closed to become..... nothing, he took action and built Emerald downs.

He refuses to ask for sluts, I'm sorry, slots as he doesn't want his track to be dependent on them. He went to the Muckleshoot tribe and made an arrangement. Give us a few bucks for each purse and we will not apply for a slot license. In return the Muckleshoot tribe gets advertising as well from Emerald Downs.

That is an operation I respect and want to support. Not these corporate slime dogs.
Crockett gets a ton of heat from folks up here because he takes a big chunk of the breeding bonuses and lots of people blame him for the closings of playfair and yakima meadows, which were the minor leagues to Longacres.

Also, the slots statement you've made I don't believe to be the true. My mom owns a non-tribal casino and poker room and she's told me several times that non-tribal entities have been told countless times by legislators slots will never happen. They did put it to a vote a few years back and it lost. Non-tribal gaming spread like wildfire when legalized in 1997 and most cities ended up putting moratorium's (sp) on any new kind of gaming. The tribes have lots of power up here.

All that being said, I've always been thankful to Crockett for getting a group together to build and run emerald downs. When Longacres closed it was heartbreaking to everyone. Emerald's really high charges for admission and parking ($7 for each unless you wanna walk a ways) are the only things I've griped about with them. The facility is nice and clean and they always try fun promo stuff and generally get a good live racing crowd. I hosted the Longacres Mile breakfast/rally a few years and he would always come down and be an interview guest and was always so nice.
__________________
Check out my daily horse racing podcast The BARN at www.betamerica.com/barn

Last edited by jballscalls; 09-29-2014 at 09:01 PM.
jballscalls is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 09:31 PM   #400
ronsmac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
Crockett gets a ton of heat from folks up here because he takes a big chunk of the breeding bonuses and lots of people blame him for the closings of playfair and yakima meadows, which were the minor leagues to Longacres.

Also, the slots statement you've made I don't believe to be the true. My mom owns a non-tribal casino and poker room and she's told me several times that non-tribal entities have been told countless times by legislators slots will never happen. They did put it to a vote a few years back and it lost. Non-tribal gaming spread like wildfire when legalized in 1997 and most cities ended up putting moratorium's (sp) on any new kind of gaming. The tribes have lots of power up here.

All that being said, I've always been thankful to Crockett for getting a group together to build and run emerald downs. When Longacres closed it was heartbreaking to everyone. Emerald's really high charges for admission and parking ($7 for each unless you wanna walk a ways) are the only things I've griped about with them. The facility is nice and clean and they always try fun promo stuff and generally get a good live racing crowd. I hosted the Longacres Mile breakfast/rally a few years and he would always come down and be an interview guest and was always so nice.
Wow, $7 admission to bet on those 6 horse fields.
ronsmac is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 09:50 PM   #401
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
Crockett gets a ton of heat from folks up here because he takes a big chunk of the breeding bonuses and lots of people blame him for the closings of playfair and yakima meadows, which were the minor leagues to Longacres.

Also, the slots statement you've made I don't believe to be the true. My mom owns a non-tribal casino and poker room and she's told me several times that non-tribal entities have been told countless times by legislators slots will never happen. They did put it to a vote a few years back and it lost. Non-tribal gaming spread like wildfire when legalized in 1997 and most cities ended up putting moratorium's (sp) on any new kind of gaming. The tribes have lots of power up here.

All that being said, I've always been thankful to Crockett for getting a group together to build and run emerald downs. When Longacres closed it was heartbreaking to everyone. Emerald's really high charges for admission and parking ($7 for each unless you wanna walk a ways) are the only things I've griped about with them. The facility is nice and clean and they always try fun promo stuff and generally get a good live racing crowd. I hosted the Longacres Mile breakfast/rally a few years and he would always come down and be an interview guest and was always so nice.
I appreciate the feedback and information. Considering what you stated, I'd still rather support them VS. CDI.

$7 bucks? I wouldn't mind paying ten. Looks like they have a festive and horse loving crowd there. Many times I joke around that they have a bigger crowd than my company at Belmont. Any idea what the attendance is?
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 10:19 PM   #402
jballscalls
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
I appreciate the feedback and information. Considering what you stated, I'd still rather support them VS. CDI.

$7 bucks? I wouldn't mind paying ten. Looks like they have a festive and horse loving crowd there. Many times I joke around that they have a bigger crowd than my company at Belmont. Any idea what the attendance is?
they get pretty good crowds on big days. Not sure what the average is, but it's more than most tracks around it's level I'd guess. there is definitely a well educated and loyal fanbase in Washington.

side note...i had my dad buried in a cemetery on the hill just east of EMD. You can sit at his plot with binoculars and watch the races
__________________
Check out my daily horse racing podcast The BARN at www.betamerica.com/barn

Last edited by jballscalls; 09-29-2014 at 10:21 PM.
jballscalls is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 10:23 PM   #403
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
they get pretty good crowds on big days. Not sure what the average is, but it's more than most tracks around it's level I'd guess. there is definitely a well educated and loyal fanbase in Washington.

side note...i had my dad buried in a cemetery on the hill just east of EMD. You can sit at his plot with binoculars and watch the races
I'm going to make it a point to spend a week out at Emerald next year!

Can't wait!
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 11:06 PM   #404
Charli125
Registered User
 
Charli125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
Emerald's really high charges for admission and parking ($7 for each unless you wanna walk a ways) are the only things I've griped about with them.
My biggest complaint with Crockett is the source market fee he keeps on the books, and he is the driving force behind it. I called and wrote my state reps and cc'd Emerald Downs. He personally called me and cursed me out on the phone for bringing this kind of thing up. And I wrote professional letters with no personal attacks whatsoever. I wrote it as a suggestion on how to make racing more sustainable and how to increase revenue.

That source market fee kills online players, and with traffic Auburn can be 45-60 minutes from Seattle. Much further from any other population centers in WA. They're in a unique position where they could do some good things with takeout, get rid of the source market fee, and their handle would go through the roof.
__________________
"Support Tracks That Support Players" Some Random Horseplayer-2011
Charli125 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-29-2014, 11:13 PM   #405
EMD4ME
NoPoints4ME
 
EMD4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
they get pretty good crowds on big days. Not sure what the average is, but it's more than most tracks around it's level I'd guess. there is definitely a well educated and loyal fanbase in Washington.

side note...i had my dad buried in a cemetery on the hill just east of EMD. You can sit at his plot with binoculars and watch the races
I apologize, I didn't see that part about your dad. I'm sorry for your loss. I would be honored to watch a race from his vantage point
EMD4ME is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.