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05-20-2018, 06:07 AM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,725
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If Brown was upset by the ride, he is a poor handicapper.
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05-20-2018, 07:14 AM
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#17
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Mike Schultz
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,234
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Jose did not ride to win, he rode to keep Justify from winning and that strategy got him a 4th place finish. Since when has it become a good strategy to take on the proven speed of speed with a non-speed horse, taking that horse out of it's comfort zone??
__________________
I attract money, I attract money...
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05-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Silly talk. About the only thing he could have done better was push harder to get in front a little.
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I believe Jose Ortiz only said what he did to "appease" Chad Brown.
I'm not second guessing his decision. Jose Ortiz is "the best jockey on the planet" right now.
Last edited by porchy44; 05-20-2018 at 07:36 AM.
Reason: spell
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05-20-2018, 08:11 AM
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#19
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
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The jocks all knew that course like the back of their hands.
Part of the reason the day was so chalky. There was no chaos or randomness regarding the mud anymore. They had adapted to the course.
Ortiz did a good job of forcing Justify to work.
If he hadn't Mike would have toyed with the field, like he does every time he inherits the lead with one of these Baffert horses.
Justify was 80%, and he was able to win ugly.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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05-20-2018, 08:30 AM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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the BAD ride was because he slowly drifted towards THE DEAD rail....knew he was done just after the turn for home....if roles had been reversed...who knows....but he was slowly herded in by the bigger intimidating horse...and then buried....
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got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
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05-20-2018, 09:09 AM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PICSIX
Jose did not ride to win, he rode to keep Justify from winning and that strategy got him a 4th place finish. Since when has it become a good strategy to take on the proven speed of speed with a non-speed horse, taking that horse out of it's comfort zone??
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I tend to agree with this, that sending Good Magic was not so much the best strategy for Good Magic to win the Preakness than it was the best strategy to keep Justify from winning the Preakness (i.e., setting it up for someone else).
Mike Smith didn't ride the 2016 BC Classic like that, with a loose California Chrome on the lead, and theoretically Arrogate had the speed to take it to him early. He didn't, sat behind, played some cat-and-mouse, and ground out the win at the wire. And some even point to the effort as evidence of greatness.
In 2015, I think it was Lezcano who decided to send Frosted into a protracted duel with American Pharoah in the Travers. The plan worked that day. It kept American Pharoah from winning, and it set it up for someone else to garner the awards...
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05-20-2018, 09:34 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PICSIX
Jose did not ride to win, he rode to keep Justify from winning and that strategy got him a 4th place finish. Since when has it become a good strategy to take on the proven speed of speed with a non-speed horse, taking that horse out of it's comfort zone??
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In fairness to Jose he had just had a front row seat on Title Ready to Mike Smith and Ax Man's unchallenged front running win in the Sir Barton. Been there, done that.
Good Magic's only shot at winning was to engage Justify and the fractions were reasonable. Ortiz surely would have preferred more of an outside pressing type situation but didn't have the luxury of sacrificing his position, especially considering what had shown to be a speed favoring surface on most all prior races.
Last edited by metro; 05-20-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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05-20-2018, 09:56 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,187
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Brown doesn't exactly shed himself in the best light, publicly calling out his jock. I've heard he is a bit of a prick and his comments reflect that. Criticize privately.
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05-20-2018, 09:58 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I don't know how you can really blame the ride there though. Found himself inside without any other speed to keep the favorite honest.
Of course you'd rather be outside but...
Good Magic was more than game in that race.
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mark this down, at some point GOOD MAGIC will be the best horse from this crop.
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05-20-2018, 10:15 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PICSIX
Jose did not ride to win, he rode to keep Justify from winning and that strategy got him a 4th place finish. Since when has it become a good strategy to take on the proven speed of speed with a non-speed horse, taking that horse out of it's comfort zone??
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Not only didn't Jose "ride to win"...he didn't even ride to PLACE. What Chad Brown hinted at with his post-race comment was that he would have been happy to follow Justify all the way to the wire, thus securing second place. The way the race unfolded...there probably wasn't one horseplayer out there who actually thought that the eventual survivor of yesterday's speed duel would have been Good Magic.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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05-20-2018, 10:19 AM
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#26
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,468
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I didn't see it, but I read today that GM odds dropped from 5-1 to 7-2 at last second, or maybe later? Anyone see that?
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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05-20-2018, 10:42 AM
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#27
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self medicated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 3,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depalma113
If Brown was upset by the ride, he is a poor handicapper.
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Of course he is, he has bias. The participants like jockeys, trainers and owners should think they are best. This is why people on ESPN and such are terrible handicappers, most of them are ex jocks (players of all sports).
Trying to be neutral and realistic is huge to gamble. Trusting someone with all their hopes and dreams invested is crazy. I love it on TV, people actually believe someone that has their entire life vested on an event. What's the guy or gal supposed to say, "Oh we will lose today." And then not make an excuse after the fact? That's just life.
I try to bet everything realistically, without bias and even attempting that is really difficult. Its the cause for mistakes and bites me in the ass. The worst person to ask is usually the ones with their future on the line or their past experiences of competing clouding their judgement. Gambling is not the same as being a "player". I wouldn't ask Terry Bradshaw or Charles Barkley who to bet on in a million years. Yet, people think those guys can pick games. Same thing goes for the jocks and trainers.......90% of the time.
Last edited by burnsy; 05-20-2018 at 10:49 AM.
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05-20-2018, 11:18 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alhattab
Brown doesn't exactly shed himself in the best light, publicly calling out his jock. I've heard he is a bit of a prick and his comments reflect that. Criticize privately.
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This was a day or so before the Preakness.
Chad is not rude, short, unkind, a bit of a prick, or whatever else you want to call him.
Do you know him?
I can tell you he's extremely focused, a quieter presence. He's not a Baffert and never will intend to be.
Trainers have been disappointed with rides before. This is not anything new. And you should know this.
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05-20-2018, 11:41 AM
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#29
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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I liked the ride from Good Magic. Took it to Justify.
There was still 'some' lingering doubt as to who was the better horse after the Derby. Ortiz and GM took at Justify to find out who was the better.
Justify is just a better horse. Not by much, but is the better.
GM and his connections have nothing to be ashamed of with his Kentucky Derby and Preakness races. They took solid shots at Justfiy. He ran well. Just got beat by a better horse.
Humility is sometimes very tough to swallow when you are so close.
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05-20-2018, 12:06 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,110
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I do not understand this. A day or two before the race, Jose told everyone his strategy. If someone else did not challenge Justify early, he was going to have to turn it into a match race. Brown was not part of this? Brown is upset more that no one else went to the lead and gave Jose no choice in the matter. It also took his horse out of his running style. Two bad choices to have, let the front runner loose on the lead or take your horse out of his running style. Jose did the right thing and fought for the win under less than ideal circumstances. Brown has no right to be upset with the ride. Got to give a to Jose here. At least he had the guts and the confidence in his horse to challenge instead of taking the other option and letting the race go with out a challenge.
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