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Old 06-08-2018, 07:17 PM   #1
LeRoi
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Best Rated/Tissue Prices

Hi all,

First time post, am enjoying the forum.

Was wondering if anyone could recommend a US form analyst who provides rated/tissue prices on races?

Not particularly interested in receiving 'tips', more so markets that I can bet the overs off.

If there are any for Canada or harness racing that would be appreciated too.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:28 AM   #2
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoi View Post
Hi all,

First time post, am enjoying the forum.

Was wondering if anyone could recommend a US form analyst who provides rated/tissue prices on races?

Not particularly interested in receiving 'tips', more so markets that I can bet the overs off.

If there are any for Canada or harness racing that would be appreciated too.

Thanks in advance.
Judging by the lack of responses I assume most people are like me and have no idea what 'tissue prices' means.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:32 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by therussmeister View Post
Judging by the lack of responses I assume most people are like me and have no idea what 'tissue prices' means.
I had to ask someone. Had never heard the term before.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:05 AM   #5
biggestal99
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Tissue prices = making a line for a race.

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Old 06-10-2018, 10:48 AM   #6
Ocala Mike
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Yes, it's like a morning line. I suppose the derivation of the term would yield a story somewhat like the derivation of the term "chalk."
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Old 06-10-2018, 11:04 AM   #7
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Boy I was way off on that one. Had a British boss many years ago, and he referred to a drawing of the original on vellum as tissues. So I was guessing it meant a sheet for a race or card.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:35 AM   #8
ARAZI91
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Tissue Pricing

UK Based and the term comes from the old days when Boards and office based Bookmakers and their odds compilers priced up early races , usually in the morning and occasionally the night before. Nowadays the term is used over here in the same way as your "Morning Line" and most professionals here have always worked off an odds based / value approach with ratings being the cornerstone and i would suggest rather than looking for a service to compile these for you , why not try it yourself?. There have been several articles published by Simon Rowlands formerly of Timeform , who CJ will recognise and they are worth reading (in fact anything by SR is worth reading , latest stuff on stride length etc is very forward thinking)
If i remember right Raybo on here managed to compile an excel sheet based on a ratings to odds formula from one of Simon's older articles and the sheet was available for download (try searching)

A couple of links - https://www.timeform.com/horse-racin...-race-15102015

The excel formulas used by SR is explained in an article in this
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/o...DFSIssue10.pdf

The whole 20 part Timeform Knowledge written by SR is also great reading and is available on the UK Timeform website.

Last edited by ARAZI91; 06-11-2018 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:22 PM   #9
LeRoi
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Apologies for the term tissue, is hard work keeping up with the racing language in all these different countries!

I thought the morning line was just the early fixed odds prices on those horses, not the assessed chances of the horse by an analysts or system.

Anyhow, am hopeful to get some names in here, as I confident if I did it myself I'd lose!
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by LeRoi View Post
Hi all,

First time post, am enjoying the forum.

Was wondering if anyone could recommend a US form analyst who provides rated/tissue prices on races?

Not particularly interested in receiving 'tips', more so markets that I can bet the overs off.

If there are any for Canada or harness racing that would be appreciated too.

Thanks in advance.

The Stats Race Lens product (a web app) contains a True Odds screen that has various columns of predictive probabilities which can be displayed as odds. There is a free race available every day so you can see what it looks like:http://racelens.stats.com


There are many other products that produce odds lines for every horse in a race and I am sure other PA members can recommend those that have found useful.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:50 PM   #11
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The tissue as pointed out, was the form analyst guide to the estimated 'true' odds for each horse in a race. Sometimes a horse would be marked as either a 'Danger' (one to keep on the right side off) or a complete no hope (lay as much as you can).

As the bookmakers turned up at the track in the morning many would buy the tissue (so named because it was written on tissue paper, enabling it to burn easily after use to prevent it falling into the wrong hands) from the analyst. He would then use these odds to make a book about a race, building a profit margin into the odds. Of course the larger firms would employ their own analysts.

An excellent book which mentions the tissue is "The Art of Legging: The History Theory and Practice of Bookmaking on the English Turf " by C.Sidney which also contains appendices on the mathematics of early bookmaking. Its also a great read in its own right.
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:27 PM   #12
LeRoi
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Thanks for that uber. US has so much racing, so it would be impossible to cover all states, but would love to know if there is any racing analysts that provide more subjective morning lines than just a quantitative system that covers all areas.

Cheers
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Old 06-21-2018, 05:11 PM   #13
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