Trevor no good

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Redbullsnation

I just ignore SRU. He seems to be the pot stirrer that almost every forum has. Just let him mess about in his business and get out of the way

I just post my opinions, its other people who stir the pot by not being able to respond to me in a courteous manner...the pot stirring comes from 5th grade tactics and silly name calling, none of that ever comes from me or is started by me.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I attended many Breeders' Cups and one Triple Crown attempt, and I can report that I did not hear one word of any of Durkin's calls during those races from the 3/8th pole to the wire. Neither did anyone else. Yet the crowd screamed.

You seriously believe ANYONE watching, say, the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic live at Gulfstream was listening to the ANNOUNCER?

The announcer is mostly a thankless job...because he is only really noticed when he screws up. Even the announcing legends (Durkin, Denman, etc...) are mostly remembered for their glaring mistakes...even though their respective fans deny this.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I attended many Breeders' Cups and one Triple Crown attempt, and I can report that I did not hear one word of any of Durkin's calls during those races from the 3/8th pole to the wire. Neither did anyone else. Yet the crowd screamed.

You seriously believe ANYONE watching, say, the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic live at Gulfstream was listening to the ANNOUNCER?

I was at GP for that race and i didnt hear the announcer at all during the stretch run. I was either too focused on the race or the crowd was drowning out the call. I think the same thing was true at CD when Zenyatta was charging at Blame, no chance you would have heard that call until afterwards.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I attended many Breeders' Cups and one Triple Crown attempt, and I can report that I did not hear one word of any of Durkin's calls during those races from the 3/8th pole to the wire. Neither did anyone else. Yet the crowd screamed.

You seriously believe ANYONE watching, say, the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic live at Gulfstream was listening to the ANNOUNCER?

Why would I be talking about live attendance in this instance? Why even bring that up?

Must I spell everything out?

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I attended many Breeders' Cups and one Triple Crown attempt, and I can report that I did not hear one word of any of Durkin's calls during those races from the 3/8th pole to the wire. Neither did anyone else. Yet the crowd screamed.

You seriously believe ANYONE watching, say, the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic live at Gulfstream was listening to the ANNOUNCER?

sounds like you are moving the goal posts here

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Why would I be talking about live attendance in this instance? Why even bring that up?

Must I spell everything out?

1. Well, you twice mentioned Durkin calling Triple Crown attempts, and Victory Gallop beating Real Quiet was singled out as a particularly great call.

How many people do you think heard that call? Bear in mind, it wasn't on ABC, and the people at the track didn't hear it because they were screaming.

2. The fact that the people at the track are screaming and can't hear the call is PRECISELY the point. If announcing were so integral to making the race exciting, why would a live crowd scream at a race where they can't hear the announcer?

Obviously, all those people watching those races I named and screaming and yelling didn't need Tom Durkin one bit. Indeed, they would not have even noticed if his microphone went out. So how can anyone possibly say announcing is integral.

It's precisely the opposite. Announcing is superfluous when you have a great race. The crowd screams, they know what they are seeing, and the announcer isn't even heard except by television viewers (and they may be hearing a different announcer).

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by Redbullsnation

I just ignore SRU. He seems to be the pot stirrer that almost every forum has. Just let him mess about in his business and get out of the way

I don't think you should ignore him. This is a forum to discuss your ideas and he's pretty good at looking at things differently.

Now, I don't agree with everything he says or ideas he thinks up but, he is blunt. Maybe, he just needs to tone it down a bit at times. And, the time he started writing in third person was a little too much even for me but, I still enjoyed it.

[The Hawk]

One thing I'll add to this: Up until the early to mid 80's, racecallers, would stop calling the race at around the 1/8th pole. It was kind of cool, as (back then, anyway) the crowd noise would take over. "We'll test these two to the wire!"

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Vic, actually I have an extremely high opinion of Joe Hernandez, especially. I think he basically invented your craft, at least in this country.

There are some tape recordings of very old radio broadcasts of the Kentucky Derby, from the 1930's, with pioneer broadcasters like Ted Husing and Clem McCarthy and Bryan Field calling the race, very badly. They couldn't really put together a call-- they meandered, failed to paint a coherent picture of what was going on, and failed to describe the position of the horses.

I've also heard a recording of Joe Hernandez calling the 1936 Santa Anita Handicap, won by Top Row over Time Supply. It is the opposite-- it is careful, clear, and precise. Hernandez had figured out how to do it and had created the basic contours of the modern race call. Everyone who does it now owes a debt to him.

But what I meant by "basic" is this-- Hernandez, Moore, Henson, and their ilk did not add any or much color commentary to the race. They gave an accurate call, but not one with a lot of flourishes. That was how it was done back then.

But don't confuse "basic" with "bad". These guys, especially Hernandez and Henson, were very good. It's just that the idea that you need someone coming up with colorful turns of phrase or the sport is boring is a very modern idea. During the sport's golden era, people managed to get excited by the race, not the call.

When Harry and Joe where at their peak they changed the entire on track experience. When you say basic perhaps their words were. However, their passion was what we all FELT as much as heard.

Tom and Trevor changed everything when our sport became a telecast. For every 1 person at the races there were 500 watching and listening someplace else. They realized that and became deserved icons.

While I admit people on track do not hear the live call. How many were in the stadium when Al Michaels asked " Do you believe in miracles ". He was saying that for all of us that couldn't be there. BTW that game was on tape delay. Almost everybody who was watching already knew the outcome and he STILL took our breath away and sent chills down our spine.

Great race calls are just the same. They complete the experience of being a fan. When we wax poetic about the thrills and chills we've seen over the years, how often does the call come into play? For me, almost always. "moving like a tremendous machine" " this is un-be-lievable" "the two derby winners hit the wire together" " Mike Smith let's the Bull roll but there's cause for Concern" "cigar" and many many others.

To say as a player you don't care about the announcers if perfectly fine. I get it. But you're just that a player. Which is cool. But you're not a fan IMO.

The mute button is there at your disposal. Nobody's feelings will be hurt if you choose to watch the chiclets.

Just think if we would have had those to watch in the form of a flying baseball. We wouldn't have had to be bothered with "THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT. THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT"

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by The Hawk

One thing I'll add to this: Up until the early to mid 80's, racecallers, would stop calling the race at around the 1/8th pole. It was kind of cool, as (back then, anyway) the crowd noise would take over. "We'll test these two to the wire!"

What other sport would even THINK of such nonsense.

Are you kidding me?

OMG

[v j stauffer]

The announcers of the past were cutting edge for their time.

Wolfman Jack, Kasey Kasum.

The world has evolved and so have the voices.

Howard Stern, Dom Imus.

Everything changes.

The market demands that.

In their time Harry and Joe and Chic were the GREATEST.

In our time it's Tom and Trevor and Larry.

That's simply the way the world works.

The horses were the greatest.

Citation, Seabiscuit, Man O War

Then came Affirmed, John Henry, Secretaraiat

Now it's Rachael, Zenyatta, Curlin, Ghostzapper, Shared Belief.

Can you imagine any of those legends running and thrilling us in silence?

I would HATE that!

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

When Harry and Joe where at their peak they changed the entire on track experience. When you say basic perhaps their words were. However, their passion was what we all FELT as much as heard.

Tom and Trevor changed everything when our sport became a telecast. For every 1 person at the races there were 500 watching and listening someplace else. They realized that and became deserved icons.

While I admit people on track do not hear the live call. How many were in the stadium when Al Michaels asked " Do you believe in miracles ". He was saying that for all of us that couldn't be there. BTW that game was on tape delay. Almost everybody who was watching already knew the outcome and he STILL took our breath away and sent chills down our spine.

Great race calls are just the same. They complete the experience of being a fan. When we wax poetic about the thrills and chills we've seen over the years, how often does the call come into play? For me, almost always. "moving like a tremendous machine" " this is un-be-lievable" "the two derby winners hit the wire together" " Mike Smith let's the Bull roll but there's cause for Concern" "cigar" and many many others.

To say as a player you don't care about the announcers if perfectly fine. I get it. But you're just that a player. Which is cool. But you're not a fan IMO.

The mute button is there at your disposal. Nobody's feelings will be hurt if you choose to watch the chiclets.

Just think if we would have had those to watch in the form of a flying baseball. We wouldn't have had to be bothered with "THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT. THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT"

Vic, I think you overrate the narration. It's true that a great narrative can be remembered. But you mention baseball-- I can name numerous famous baseball events that are well known with the public at large and which are NOT associated with any call as iconic as Russ Hodges'. They include: (1) Mazeroski's home run, (2) Aaron's 715th, (3) Nolan Ryan's seven no hitters, (4) Bill Buckner's error, (5) Steve Bartman's fan interference, etc. There's a ton of them where few people remember what the announcer said but everyone remembers the play.

And you note Secretariat's Triple Crown was accompanied by an iconic racecall. So was Affirmed's, by the way. But does anyone remember Anderson's call of Seattle Slew's Belmont, or ANY call of Citation's? And yet people remember Seattle Slew and Citation winning the Triple Crown.

You are confusing correlation with causation. Sometimes announcers rise to the occasion and you get an amazing set of words. Other times, they don't. But people still remember the event.

I doubt anyone remembers what Al Michaels said when Wilson's pass was intercepted at the goal line last week, and Michaels is an excellent announcer. But the play, and the play call, is going to be remembered for a long time anyway. Announcing is a bells and whistle issue. The sport is what is compelling. And it was compelling back in the day when there wasn't as many bells and whistles-- indeed, track attendance figures indicate it was MORE compelling back then.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Vic, I think you overrate the narration. It's true that a great narrative can be remembered. But you mention baseball-- I can name numerous famous baseball events that are well known with the public at large and which are NOT associated with any call as iconic as Russ Hodges'. They include: (1) Mazeroski's home run, (2) Aaron's 715th, (3) Nolan Ryan's seven no hitters, (4) Bill Buckner's error, (5) Steve Bartman's fan interference, etc. There's a ton of them where few people remember what the announcer said but everyone remembers the play.

And you note Secretariat's Triple Crown was accompanied by an iconic racecall. So was Affirmed's, by the way. But does anyone remember Anderson's call of Seattle Slew's Belmont, or ANY call of Citation's? And yet people remember Seattle Slew and Citation winning the Triple Crown.

You are confusing correlation with causation. Sometimes announcers rise to the occasion and you get an amazing set of words. Other times, they don't. But people still remember the event.

I doubt anyone remembers what Al Michaels said when Wilson's pass was intercepted at the goal line last week, and Michaels is an excellent announcer. But the play, and the play call, is going to be remembered for a long time anyway. Announcing is a bells and whistle issue. The sport is what is compelling. And it was compelling back in the day when there wasn't as many bells and whistles-- indeed, track attendance figures indicate it was MORE compelling back then.

Of course you can find examples where the announcer didn't necessarily add to the moment.

That doesn't mean it would have better without any call.

While countless sports and worlds events moments have been added to by the voices who described them.

Why lobby for subtraction?

We all get something.

Your examples mean nothing to those of us that thrilled to the words in other circumstances.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Of course you can find examples where the announcer didn't necessarily add to the moment.

That doesn't mean it would have better without any call.

While countless sports and worlds events moments have been added to by the voices who described them.

Why lobby for subtraction?

We all get something.

Your examples mean nothing to those of us that thrilled to the words in other circumstances.

Get off your high-horse Vic, the MUTE button is there for a reason, and sometimes it was used on YOUR calls.....Dilanesp's post was spot-on, as sometimes others announce, speak and post better than you. Just accept it and move on......

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Get off your high-horse Vic, the MUTE button is there for a reason, and sometimes it was used on YOUR calls.....Dilanesp's post was spot-on, as sometimes others announce, speak and post better than you. Just accept it and move on......

Don't mince words, Randall...tell us what you REALLY think.