What Happened To The Jockey Club Gold Cup

[EMD4ME]

Remember, if NYRA does that, they don't hurt as much as the BC. NYRA has slot money coming in.

The BC needs all the handle, revenue etc that they can get.

Dilute them and you break them. You MAKE them come back to you.

Why reward them? Again, Forget them.

[cj]

Originally Posted by rsetup

Where are the horses?

Doesn't matter, they gave out a million for a G2 at best yesterday. You weaken the BC and make people question if they are really championship races, it will sting. NYRA is getting hurt by the BC. They get nothing from the BC. Why shouldn't they take them on?

[ultracapper]

And the continuing saga of horse racing's demise continues with the internal battles.

Gotta be another way gentleman.

[rastajenk]

Yeah, those goings-on did wonders for Indy Car racing, didn't they?

[Tom]

I have long advocated NYRA put on their own BC weekend ahead of the real one. And to sweeten the pot, give a 5 lb. weight break to any horse who starts in a "NYRA CUP" prep race at Belmont in September or October.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

And the continuing saga of horse racing's demise continues with the internal battles.

Gotta be another way gentleman.

I don't see the BC doing much for racing. Maybe I'm blind. I only see it hurting racing.

Horses are racing less, G1 means less than it did 20 years ago. Smaller fields etc.

If we go back to no year end championships, maybe horses would race more in more prestigous races INSTEAD of making a few starts and making the BC the goal.

Why should the premier/co premier circuit in the country, play 2nd fiddle to the BC?

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I don't see the BC doing much for racing. Maybe I'm blind. I only see it hurting racing.

Horses are racing less, G1 means less than it did 20 years ago. Smaller fields etc.

If we go back to no year end championships, maybe horses would race more in more prestigous races INSTEAD of making a few starts and making the BC the goal.

Why should the premier/co premier circuit in the country, play 2nd fiddle to the BC?

You might be right , but those beeeders cup cards have been phenomenal the last few years. It's my favorite weekend of the year by far.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

You might be right , but those beeeders cup cards have been phenomenal the last few years. It's my favorite weekend of the year by far.

To each his/her own. I can't argue with you on that.

I'm thinking year round and overall good for the game. If the Olympics were held in Georgia every single time, do you think the entire world would watch as intently?

I just feel that tracks, mostly NYRA, are sacrificing way too much for nothing in return.

Why should NYRA accept less, for the good of Santa Anita???

[infrontby1]

What's going to happen to the JCGC and the other fall championship races at Belmont will be what happened to their other premier races including the summer handicap triple crown races (remember those?) such as the Suburban and the Brooklyn Handicaps, and moving races like the Metropolitan Handicap as an undercard race on the big racing day:


They will lose their Grade I status


If and when that will happen, these races will fall off the radar of the best horses' connections that are in charge of planning where to race their stock.

Again, it's a question of whether the owner wants the big purse (e.g. racing in the Delta Downs Jackpot) or the Grade I trophy on their breeding resume (e.g. The Champagne at Belmont)

[CincyHorseplayer]

The other somewhat less talked about and minor theme of this thread has been distance. Even when I was 3-4 years into my 20 year playing saga I appreciated more and more 2 turn races on both surfaces mainly because more could develop in a race and IMO they were more competitive because of it. When I had been around long enough pedigree started to peek out at me and I took notice. Knowing the lay of the land by sires and dams makes you appreciate distance ability also. And IMO more and more I see pedigrees coming along geared for distances on both sides of the breeding line. Racing cut back the distances over time. I would like to see this practice undone in one way or another because I think it is absurd. The 10f distance IMO is the championship distance for GR-1 competition. It allows milers and those with true staying power an equal chance. Cultivating the flat mile as Europe does and revering their milers=absolutely. But when it comes to the top competition in this country beyond a flat mile I think these races much be stretched back out. To me in stakes company 8.5 furlong races are absolutely useless. To the point I don't think that distance should allowed even GR-3 status. The Donn, Whitney, Woodward, Haskell, these should ALL be 10f races IMO. I feel so strongly that I don't think any 9f race should be allowed beyond GR-2 status. And have some more 11-12 furlong dirt stakes. Cultivate this again. When trainers can't escape the distance reality unless it is for lesser purses I think it would alter their approach and we would end up with more fit horses and the contenders from pretenders would be weeded out definitively. I think this would restore some of the greatness back to racing and would put a bigger influence back into pedigree. That's my 2 cents and I would love to see this.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

If we go back to no year end championships, maybe horses would race more in more prestigous races INSTEAD of making a few starts and making the BC the goal.

Why should the premier/co premier circuit in the country, play 2nd fiddle to the BC?

Bingo.
Championships earned by running in a series of Graded races to get them.
Stay in the barn, watch the awards show on TVG.

[classhandicapper]

I hope whatever strategy NYRA takes (if any) is well thought out.

I remember the 70s when these big NY races used to draw large crowds and be real championship races. At great as racing in NY was back then, those races didn't generate as much national interest among casual fans as the Breeder's Cup does. People that are normally not that interested in racing, watch and bet on BC races. There are only 4 events each year that generate that huge fan interest: Derby, Preakness, Belmont and the BC. Killing one of them doesn't make much sense to me.

Bringing the BC to NY once in awhile makes perfect sense. That's the way it was supposed to be. But I don't see how that restores these other Belmont races to past glory. You might get an extra horse here or there because they want their horse to prep at Belmont too, but that's about it.

Making the NY purses larger might help a little in marginal decisions, but I don't see how it makes sense for the sport (or NY) to put up enough money to actually compete with the BC and/or try to destroy it.

As long as the BC has the biggest purses and carries the most weight in Eclipse voting, connections are going to try to keep their horses fresh so they can still get a peak performance in November and take down the money and award.

Perhaps some kind of point total for a series of races in NY (or nationally) (with bonuses) would at least change the way people think about the weighting for Eclipse Awards.

It's going to take some creative thinking. I don't have many good ideas.

[Tom]

NYRA did not have national coverage like it does today.
Hardly anyone could bet those races.
Today, wagering is available to a large markets, as is their product.

Who is going to compete with them if they bring out the big guns?

[SuperPickle]

I can't see how doing your own breeders cup would work.

Their simply aren't enough horses is the problem. Competing for them solves nothing.

In the two-year-old races and the lesser divisions and the tighter divisions the Breeder's Cup literally decides the Eclipse winner. I can't see owners giving that up.

What I always find fascinating is people think purse money solves every problem in the sport. Haven't we kind of learned its actually the opposite? That all this new slot money combined with less horses, combined with horses racing less, is the reason you have the 2016 JCC.

All of racings problems come back to contraction. Not only of tracks but of stakes races themselves also.

NYRA and other tracks are still trying to run a stakes schedule from 50 years ago. Maybe they need to come to their senses and do something like this...

You eliminate the Woodard and the Suburban. You come to grips with there's always going to be limited talent in the older horse division so you cut it from five stakes to three. The Met, The Whitney, and JCC. You space them 6-8 weeks apart. And you make each a million dollars with a $2-3 million dollar bonus for winning all three.

So you have the Met on Belmont Day. You have the Whitney on Saratoga opening weekend and have you the JCC 6 weeks before the Classic. Add a bonus and there you go.

And you could do the same thing with the older mares and do it for 50-75% of the money.

Sooner or later you have to accept and adjust that their are less horses racing less often. Throwing money at them solves nothing.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Tom

NYRA did not have national coverage like it does today.
Hardly anyone could bet those races.
Today, wagering is available to a large markets, as is their product.

Who is going to compete with them if they bring out the big guns?

No one. Period. They should so do it and do it grand.