Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are continuing to jump up and own on one foot, fingers in your ears, toque sticking out, endlessly repeating yourself.

You can not logically support your supposition by simply defining your "god" as coming first.

The proposition that God is eternal is not illogical, as it does not violate any laws of logic. Conversely, any theory that postulates a finite universe's existence as being intrinsic to itself necessarily requires and endless series of propositions since a first (or final cause) cannot be attributed to anything.

An infinite regress or homunculus fallacy is when an argument relies on a series of never-ending propositions, where the validity of one proposition depends on the validity of the one which follows and/or precedes it.

The infinite regress is a close sibling of circularity, wherein the premises provide support for the conclusion, which in turn provides support for said premises to begin with, which in turn…[2]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Infinite_regress

Nature should tell you that nothing comes into existence by itself. But then again...I never accused of being a bright light bulb.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The proposition that God is eternal is not illogical, as it does not violate any laws of logic. Conversely, any theory that postulates a finite universe's existence as being intrinsic to itself necessarily requires and endless series of propositions since a first (or final cause) cannot be attributed to anything......

blah, blah, blah...

And if god can be defined as eternal, why not use Mr. Occam, and simply define the universe as eternal? We only can experience an infinitesimal portion of the universe in one moment. Or a lifetime

The Oscillating Universe Theory is a cosmological model that combines both the Big Bang and the Big Crunch as part of a cyclical event. That is, if this theory holds true, then the Universe in which we live in exists between a Big Bang and a Big Crunch.

In other words, our universe can be the first of a possible series of universes or it can be the nth universe in the series.

We do not know enough about time and if our experience of time is all of time.
Each instance of the oscillating universe may exist in a larger scope of multiple "time dimensions".

Call it "eternity"

Remember Socrates. We do not know

Multiple time dimensions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_time_dimensions

Speculative theories with more than one dimension of time have been explored in physics. The additional dimensions may be similar to conventional time, compactified like the additional spatial dimensions in string theory or components of a complex time. Complex time is two-dimensional, comprising one real time dimension and one imaginary time dimension, moving time from the positive real number line into the complex plane.

[hcap]

There are the Hindu and Buddhist mythologies, referring to the immense multi-trillion year time cycles of the universe, as "the breath of Buddha"

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

And if god can be defined as eternal, why not use Mr. Occam, and simply define the universe as eternal? We only can experience an infinitesimal portion of the universe in one moment. Or a lifetime


We do not know enough about time and if our experience of time is all of time.
Each instance of the oscillating universe may exist in a larger scope of multiple "time dimensions".

Call it "eternity"

Remember Socrates. We do not know

I've explained OFTEN how the theory of an eternal universe would violate the Law of Identity -- the most fundamental law of logic! Pay attention. You truly manifest your ignorance! YOU DO NOT KNOW!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The proposition that God is eternal is not illogical, as it does not violate any laws of logic. Conversely, any theory that postulates a finite universe's existence as being intrinsic to itself necessarily requires and endless series of propositions since a first (or final cause) cannot be attributed to anything.

Take a course in elliptical geometry and then get back to me.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Take a course in elliptical geometry and then get back to me.

Originally Posted by Actor

Take a course in elliptical geometry and then get back to me.

Only after you take courses in logic. Nothing in this universe creates itself. Not even you...or your bud Hcap.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Only after you take courses in logic.

I've taken courses in logic and aced them all.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Nothing in this universe creates itself.

What part of "finite and unbounded" do you not understand?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I've explained OFTEN how the theory of an eternal universe would violate the Law of Identity --

No you have not.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Physics has to do with physical realities, not non-physical reality.

"non-physical reality" is an oxymoron!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...what does[sic] Newton's Laws say?

That cause and effect can occur simultaneously. It then follows that, if A causes B, then B can cause A, a causal loop. Furthermore, quantum entanglement says that this can occur instantly at great distances. Ergo, Aquinas' First Argument fails.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Infinite regress has to with finite entities ONLY!

Circular reasoning.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

No you have not.

Yup I have. It violates the Law of Identity.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Circular reasoning.

No it isn't. The Law of Causation says that whatever HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE requires a cause. Whatever is eternal has never come into existence, nor will it ever go out of existence. Therefore, whatever is eternal is uncaused.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I've taken courses in logic and aced them all.

What part of "finite and unbounded" do you not understand?

Finite Definition:

Main Entry:fi£nite
Pronunciation:*f*-*n*t
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle English finit, from Latin finitus, past participle of finire
Date:15th century

1 a : having definite or definable limits *finite number of possibilities* b : having a limited nature or existence *finite beings*
2 : completely determinable in theory or in fact by counting, measurement, or thought *the finite velocity of light*
3 a : less than an arbitrary positive integer and greater than the negative of that integer b : having a finite number of elements *a finite set*
4 : of, relating to, or being a verb or verb form that can function as a predicate or as the initial element of one and that is limited (as in tense, person, and number)
–finite noun
–fi£nite£ly adverb
–fi£nite£ness noun

[Unbounded Definition:

Main Entry:un£bound£ed
Pronunciation:-*ba*n-d*d
Function:adjective
Date:1593

1 : having no limit
2 : UNRESTRAINED, UNCONTROLLED
–un£bound£ed£ness noun

So, which is it, Mr. Forked Tongue? You have claimed the universe is both.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

"non-physical reality" is an oxymoron!

Only in your limited view of reality.

Enjoy the read and the vids.

https://www.collective-evolution.com...-only-reality/