New Ruling on Changes Leaves NYRA, Trainers Puzzled

[Andy Asaro]

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[classhandicapper]

Pletcher and Donk made some good points. It seems like they have good intentions for horseplayers, but haven't thought out all the implications of rule. There probably should have been more discussions.

[Robert Fischer]

I don't know anything about training or administrative steward work.

Only interest is come Feb 1 seeing changes posted online earlier than usual.

[Tom]

As a bettor, I would be more likely to forget my pants than not check the latest scratched and changes on the track website.

The one thing I found strange is that entries need to be made by phone and not on the internet. Seems pretty 20th cemtury thinking.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by Tom

As a bettor, I would be more likely to forget my pants than not check the latest scratched and changes on the track website.

The one thing I found strange is that entries need to be made by phone and not on the internet. Seems pretty 20th cemtury thinking.

Testify. So long as equipment changes are disclosed sufficiently in advance of the race - even on race day - what's the issue? I don't get it.

Likewise re calling in entries - wtf?

[the little guy]

It's creating a problem where none exists. Racing is hard enough already.

[v j stauffer]

I've worked as a Steward in three different States.

Needless to say, rules are not uniform which makes it difficult for horsemen racing in multiple jurisdictions.

I've never felt the Steward's job is to catch people. That's for the investigators when complaints are brought forth. IMO we should be there to try to help the horsemen navigate the different rule books while attempting to promote a level playing field for all participants which in turn should help the bettors.

Do Stewards sanction people for violations? Yes of course they do it every day. This happens like an appellate court when either the regulatory body brings a complaint against a licensee or there's a dispute to be settled between two licensee's.

As for the rule changes spoken of in this thread. I strongly believe that changes to what appears on the overnight SHOULD be allowed as long as the official program has not yet become final and gone to print.

Honest mistakes can be made by both horsemen and racing office personnel that can be fixed before the general public begins the handicapping process.

If a mistake isn't discovered all the way through to race day. Announcements and graphics can be shared with the public. It can be allowed again to promote a level playing field but it better not become habit or we're going to get into someone's pocket with fines if it happens too often.

There are a couple of exceptions when changing things on the overnight SHOULD NOT be allowed. The biggest being the claiming waiver rules. If a horseman intends to enter and use the waiver they better be damn sure it's declared at time of entry. This cannot be changed once the overnight is printed.

Horsemen and or jocks agents must attend the draw and make VERY sure that is noted while the races are being drawn. The person conducting the draw will also mention it as the pills are being pulled. NO DO OVERS ON THAT RULE.

More and more rules that make things tougher on horseman are IMO the last thing we need.

We can be transparent with the bettors without having to make the already difficult job of training even tougher.

[HottalkersinKY]

Vic is this claiming wavier rule even needed in racing

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by HottalkersinKY

Vic is this claiming wavier rule even needed in racing

Personally I think it's a TERRIFIC rule.

Gives an owner, especially one who supports a smaller stable a chance.

In the past people who put in the time, effort and most importantly EXPENSE of bringing back a cheaper horse off an extended layoff. Had to deal with that horse being claimed away after one try.

With this rule in place it gives a guy/gal the chance to see some reward for the commitment they chose to make.

I know for a fact this rule has kept some owners in the game that otherwise would have become disillusioned, frustrated and walked away.

[mountainman]

Technically, most of this institutes nothing new, as much as admonishing officials to adhere to ancient regulations stating that specifics of a horse's participation must be established at time of entry.

These include weight, equip., bug allowance, owner, trainer, and even preference dates..etc. Again, in accordance with long standing policy, stating and affirming the validity of these particulars is the trainer's responsibility.

In fact, veteran officials have a mantra stemming from this policy-"We aren't here to babysit agents and horsemen." It's catchy, decisive, and intended to indemnify officials from culpability for certain mistakes.

Except, as I told my crew not even two months ago, lots of what we do DOES amount to babysitting. Without official records, professional awareness of the rules, and practiced eyes confirming every aspect of the process, the overnight would be a complete train wreck of omissions and errors. And we would not be needed.

Even so, mistakes hit the overnight. Mistakes made by BOTH the person giving the entry, and by officials. Correctable mistakes caught by tedious proofing and re-confirming. "Back-checking" weights and eligibility is one example. I do that myself at mnr much as a sky diver would pack his own parachute. Customarily, this duty would fall to subordinates, but never EVER allowing an ineligible or incorrectly weighted runner to make the gate is your pride, legacy, and WHO YOU ARE as an ast racing secretary, so I do it myself.

Computers, too, commit critical errors, as does "RTO," horseracing's standard operating system. Sometimes egregious errors, the sort of which MUST be addressed and fixed after the overnight comes out.

Having made these calls for decades, I could expound much more on how this works in the real world, distinguishing, that is, between fixable and non-fixable mistakes on an overnight.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

Testify. So long as equipment changes are disclosed sufficiently in advance of the race - even on race day - what's the issue? I don't get it.

Likewise re calling in entries - wtf?

One small problem was late announcements. What of you go to early bird wagering and make all your bets on the way to work. In the paddock it's announced a horse will be blinkers on. Now that horse could potentially show much more speed and completely change the shape of the race. What if you loved a horse thinking it would be Lone speed? And now it gets gets early pressure? You'd be pissed. We had that happen once when I was a Steward in CA. Vladimir Cerin entered a horse with blinkers on. It didn't make the overnight the program or get noticed by the paddock judge. Peter Miller saw it and told the paddock judge who called us. We had the racing office pull the original entry card. Sure enough it said blinkers on. Since wagering had already opened we decided the horse could not race with blinkers. It was a 2-1 vote. Understandably Vlado was very upset. We were sorry but stuck to our decision. We gave him the option of running without blinkers or he could scratch with no penalty and be given a super star. Mark will tell you what that is. He chose to scratch. After a hearing the racing office was fined.