2022 Eclipse Award Ballot

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Modern Games beat older horses twice in Grade 1s in North America...and he won the Breeders' Cup Mile

'nuff said

So you think he's going to win best 3yo when the biggest races are run in the United States and on dirt?

People tend to forget the Eclipse is not often who the best horse is. It's who accomplished the most in the races that are normally used as the measuring sticks.

Let's make two separate wagers.

Two $20 DD's at Oaklawn.

TAIBA VS MODERN GAMES

MODERN GAMES VS EPICENTER

Winner picks. Loser pays. We split any profits.

If we split the two bets, we still buy the DD's.

Chance to make some bank.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

So you think he's going to win best 3yo when the biggest races are run in the United States and on dirt?

People tend to forget the Eclipse is not often who the best horse is. It's who accomplished the most in the races that are normally used as the measuring sticks.

Let's make two separate wagers.

Two $20 DD's at Oaklawn.

TAIBA VS MODERN GAMES

MODERN GAMES VS EPICENTER

Winner picks. Loser pays. We split any profits.

If we split the two bets, we still buy the DD's.

Chance to make some bank.

This year, the 3yo dirt males were all taking turns...nobody really stood out on dirt IMO.

This is just the kind of year a horse like Modern Games should win top 3yo.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

This year, the 3yo dirt males were all taking turns...nobody really stood out on dirt IMO.

This is just the kind of year a horse like Modern Games should win top 3yo.

You're certainly entitled to think he should.

I don't think he has snowball's chance of winning.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

So you think he's going to win best 3yo when the biggest races are run in the United States and on dirt?

People tend to forget the Eclipse is not often who the best horse is. It's who accomplished the most in the races that are normally used as the measuring sticks.

Let's make two separate wagers.

Two $20 DD's at Oaklawn.

TAIBA VS MODERN GAMES

MODERN GAMES VS EPICENTER

Winner picks. Loser pays. We split any profits.

If we split the two bets, we still buy the DD's.

Chance to make some bank.

What about the friendly wagers?

Both benefit if we win!

[PaceAdvantage]

No wagering on here between forum participants....been a rule for 20+ years

[classhandicapper]

IMO Taiba vs. Epicenter should be a close vote because it really depends on how you weight wins in Grade 2s, seconds in the most prestigious Derby/Preakness, and a win in the prestigious Travers vs. more Grade 1s, but of lower quality.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

IMO Taiba vs. Epicenter should be a close vote because it really depends on how you weight wins in Grade 2s, seconds in the most prestigious Derby/Preakness, and a win in the prestigious Travers vs. more Grade 1s, but of lower quality.

Just reading this makes me want to vote for Modern Games even more.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Just reading this makes me want to vote for Modern Games even more.

I don't think he'll get it.

He would have a better chance if people felt that Taiba and Epicenter weren't especially good and had won their races as the best of a poor dirt group. I think most people think both are very good but with different resumes. So I think they'll stick with a fairly close vote between the 2 dirt horses.

I don't think too many people would argue strongly against Modern Games being as good or better at what he does than they are at what they do. They'll just favor the dirt horses that also did more in the US.

[cj]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

But is it enough to defeat a horse that won three Grade 1's and was third to FLIGHTLINE in the BC Classic.

I read where someone said had he finished 2nd that would change his opinion. Two ways to look at that. Undoubtedly, he had more trouble than any horse in the race. So, is the 3rd an accomplishment or a failure?

At least I'm "someone" now!!!

I can't get overly excited about being 3rd to FLIGHTLINE unless the horse is actually in the picture when the winner is crossing the wire. It was like two different races. I'd argue he was actually fourth best in the race, behind Flightline, Life Is Good, and Olympiad.

[Spalding No!]

I don't have a problem with a Euro winning the award, but their entire body of work on the year should be considered, not just the requisite NA start(s).

Modern Games was decidedly a cut below 3yo in Europe. He won a weak French Guineas and then disappointed the rest of the year, even getting beat by a French Guineas also-ran in a poor renewal of the Queen Elizabeth.

His dominance in 2 of NA's most important turf mile races despite being a middling horse in Europe highlights the vast chasm that exists between the quality of Europe's top horses and what masquerades as "top class" on the turf in NA.

That said, on prestige his Euro accomplishments still measure up favorably with Taiba and Epicenter.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

No wagering on here between forum participants....been a rule for 20+ years

Contests don't count?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Contests don't count?

Why would they?

Contests aren't gambling between members...

Plus I have zero interest...even if it was allowed...

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

At least I'm "someone" now!!!

I can't get overly excited about being 3rd to FLIGHTLINE unless the horse is actually in the picture when the winner is crossing the wire. It was like two different races. I'd argue he was actually fourth best in the race, behind Flightline, Life Is Good, and Olympiad.

Life is good Definitely comes to mind as having done a ton more running than taiiba in classic...

Life is good was clearly 2nd most running in classic.

Olympia doesn't jump off the screen in my memory bank but I wouldn't be surprised if I went back and checked if I Thought it was true or at least close. You are always sharp at these comparison

Is also a big difference between performance In terms of finishing position and the amount of running gun in the Kentucky derby considering taiba. Thai but did not run poorly at all in the Kentucky derby.

Which strike is going to be running at 4 and he's also doing some kind of finger painting or hoof painting project where he sends thank you cards every month to Summer is tomorrow and crown pride and then horses like tie bar Because They are the ones who did some much running up front To give a chance to horses like rich strike.

I was very very interested in type oftaibs coming into the Kentucky derby. The only weakness or Where I'm not in love with taiba is It's his way of going. Yes top git's classs talent He has top class talent, AFAIK very good breeding, top training , top medication... Not a big horse and something about his way of going. "A-" in terms of quality but any of the supertrainers ers and/or super owners can have a horse like this contending in grade1s

[v j stauffer]

I actually forgot about RICH STRIKE.

Maybe he deserves to finish 3rd?

[cj]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I actually forgot about RICH STRIKE.

Maybe he deserves to finish 3rd?

I think you typo-ed 13th.