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10-18-2018, 06:40 PM
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#736
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
Now if you were the president, wouldn't you worry a lot more about all the retail workers who are losing jobs to companies like Amazon, and the solar industry which is providing more jobs each year?
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No. Why should the president worry about jobs in a free, competitive market? Amazon is the big boy in a growing market, e-retail, but competition is growing and Amazon is doing nothing illegal. Brick and mortar retail has to adapt or die. Wal-Mart has figured that out, and is shaping up to be a major Amazon competitor.
Trump's "worry" about the solar industry has shown the unintended consequences of a president sticking his nose in where he shouldn't. Most solar panels sold in this country are imported. Most solar jobs here are installing panels, not manufacturing them. Trump's tariffs on imported solar panels resulted in lower demand, and thus fewer jobs for American installers.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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10-18-2018, 07:11 PM
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#737
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
No. Why should the president worry about jobs in a free, competitive market? Amazon is the big boy in a growing market, e-retail, but competition is growing and Amazon is doing nothing illegal. Brick and mortar retail has to adapt or die. Wal-Mart has figured that out, and is shaping up to be a major Amazon competitor.
Trump's "worry" about the solar industry has shown the unintended consequences of a president sticking his nose in where he shouldn't. Most solar panels sold in this country are imported. Most solar jobs here are installing panels, not manufacturing them. Trump's tariffs on imported solar panels resulted in lower demand, and thus fewer jobs for American installers.
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In 10 years stores like Sears, Penny's, maybe Target and that ilk will also be going out of business. Everybody can't just start working for Amazon.
As for imported panels, the fact is that they were better panels at a cheaper price. If we want to continue expanding solar and build our own manufacturing facilities, good chance the price will go up.
The equation is easy enough. Spend less money on electricity, spend more money on something else.
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10-18-2018, 07:15 PM
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#738
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,483
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If those solar panels in question are from China, deny China 100%
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10-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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#739
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
If we want to continue expanding solar and build our own manufacturing facilities
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I thought you were a teacher or something . . .
My mistake.
We don't want to do anything.
Last edited by Buckeye; 10-18-2018 at 07:19 PM.
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10-18-2018, 08:13 PM
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#740
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
If those solar panels in question are from China, deny China 100%
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Solar panel manufacturing is highly automated. So if we build expensive new factories here to produce them, that will not create a lot of jobs, the panels will be even more expensive, the demand for them will decrease even more, and there will be even less need for installers.
Next.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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10-18-2018, 08:17 PM
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#741
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Solar panel manufacturing is highly automated. So if we build expensive new factories here to produce them, that will not create a lot of jobs, the panels will be even more expensive, the demand for them will decrease even more, and there will be even less need for installers.
Next.
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Screw China, drop economic bombs on them I say.
Last edited by fast4522; 10-18-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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10-18-2018, 08:28 PM
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#742
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
In 10 years stores like Sears, Penny's, maybe Target and that ilk will also be going out of business.
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Why is that the business of the federal government? I'm not quite old enough to remember it, but Sears was the Amazon of 100 years ago. Sears innovated mail-order retail and catalog sales. I am old enough to remember that a big deal for kids was when the Sears Christmas catalog arrived in the mail.
Sears put a lot of small local retailers out of business. Did the government do anything about that? Did the economy collapse? Were most consumers better off as a result of that? Life goes on.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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10-18-2018, 08:36 PM
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#743
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Screw China, drop economic bombs on them I say.
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What you just said is screw the American public. Screw homeowners that want to install low cost solar. Screw the installers that make a living doing that. And what is the up-side?
There are a few solar panel manufacturers still operating in the US. Oops, those plants are owned by Chinese corporations, and they create some American jobs. Should we drop "economic bombs" on them too? If we drop "economic bombs" on China, will that give them the incentive to build more largely automated plants in this country?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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10-18-2018, 08:38 PM
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#744
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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I can't agree with everything you said Clocker but generally you are correct.
Watch what happens when China wakes up.
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10-18-2018, 08:43 PM
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#745
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
Here is something Trump can explain in his next campaign. There are 260,077 solar workers and 4,854,300 retail workers in the U.S. as opposed to around 70,000 coal workers. Now if you were the president, wouldn't you worry a lot more about all the retail workers who are losing jobs to companies like Amazon, and the solar industry which is providing more jobs each year? Even the wind industry has more workers than coal. Saving coal jobs doesn't amount to much compared to renewable fuels and the retail sector. Why don't we focus there?
Most utilities will shut their coal burning plants over the next 10 years or so anyway. Not because they hate coal but because they can't meet environmental standards without spending a lot more money on a 70 year old plant meant to be retired after 30 years.
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what percentage of those 260K solar workers are involved in installation - will those jobs last forever?
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10-18-2018, 09:30 PM
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#746
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Good questions but don't concern yourself.
We the American People are NOT listening we are speaking.
OK?
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10-18-2018, 10:23 PM
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#747
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
What you just said is screw the American public. Screw homeowners that want to install low cost solar. Screw the installers that make a living doing that. And what is the up-side?
There are a few solar panel manufacturers still operating in the US. Oops, those plants are owned by Chinese corporations, and they create some American jobs. Should we drop "economic bombs" on them too? If we drop "economic bombs" on China, will that give them the incentive to build more largely automated plants in this country?
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How long will it take China to raise their Prices on steel or solar panels? We can't compete against China's large cheap labor base. The best way is Buy American. How many unemployed American will it take before we employed.
We should be cutting the cost of government instead of cutting jobs. All of those government worker will need a job. No more government pension funds or insurance payments on the backs of tax payers.
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10-18-2018, 10:43 PM
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#748
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davew
what percentage of those 260K solar workers are involved in installation - will those jobs last forever?
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They'll last until hydrogen fuel cells are perfected.
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10-18-2018, 10:48 PM
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#749
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
They'll last until hydrogen fuel cells are perfected.
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Solar panel installation jobs don't last if the costs of solar panels, including tariffs, price too many consumers out of the market.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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10-18-2018, 10:53 PM
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#750
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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"It's not a battle it's a war."
Larry Lederman
I agree incoming, did I sell you a Racing Form at AC Race Course?
Article V of the U.S. Constitution
https://conventionofstates.com/?ref=...xoC7NAQAvD_BwE
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