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10-19-2022, 12:42 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 2
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Small tracks
Interested to hear if posters find that they have better success at smaller tracks. Any truth to the idea that there may be advantages to be had from less sharp/CAW money in some of these pools, particularly the win pools? I guess the counter would be that the pools can be so small that any kind of late money can more drastically change the odds compared to much larger pools, but I'm hoping that on balance that disadvantage might be outweighed.
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10-19-2022, 01:21 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 90
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A lot higher percentage of the pools at the smaller tracks is CAW money, stable money, smart handicapper money...than at the bigger tracks.
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10-19-2022, 01:38 PM
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#3
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Monday, R4, the horse left the gate a 4-1, hit the quarter mile at 3-2.
I see a lot of drastic changes at FL.
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10-19-2022, 01:42 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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Even if there is less CAW money, the odds are still volatile because the pools are so much smaller. There's probably a sweet spot in the bigger small tracks, but I don't know where it is.
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11-09-2022, 08:36 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYeoman
Interested to hear if posters find that they have better success at smaller tracks. Any truth to the idea that there may be advantages to be had from less sharp/CAW money in some of these pools, particularly the win pools? I guess the counter would be that the pools can be so small that any kind of late money can more drastically change the odds compared to much larger pools, but I'm hoping that on balance that disadvantage might be outweighed.
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My last small-track visit was to Portland Meadows the year before they closed. It was very enjoyable as to atmosphere, facilities and the crowd. I had a winning day despite never having followed it, and prices, especially place and exactas were better than I expected. Maybe all of this was just coincidence, but I was looking forward to returning on my next visit, which didn't pan out.
In my own experience, success at smaller vs. larger tracks has been tied to specializing on the trainers, horses and jockeys who run there. My one-day of luck at PM was just getting lucky. The more tracks I've tried to play simultaneously affects my bottom line negatively..
As to sharper or CAW money, I thought NYRA and Fla tracks were tougher to compete. For a while I did focus on Belmont and Aqu, and did better than I expected. Sar and Ky tracks were the toughest in my mind to compete with sharp money.
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11-09-2022, 09:45 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,287
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_____________
I believe that whales don't want to bet the smaller tracks for obvious reasons
and I believe that the big plungers are generally the sharper bettors
so, it follows that it is easier to find a good bet there than at the big tracks
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believe only half of what you see.....and nothing that you hear..................Edgar Allan Poe
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11-09-2022, 02:32 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 246
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How can you find a good bet when 80% of the win pool comes in during the final tick? It's delusional.
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11-09-2022, 03:49 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesome
How can you find a good bet when 80% of the win pool comes in during the final tick? It's delusional.
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you're generalizing
that doesn't happen every times
and why would you assume that all the money is coming in on the horse you want to bet on______?
if it happens and you bet on a different horse your odds will be inflated
some of these 3/5 shots who got bet down late are real dogs
if you're a player that usually bets faves - yes, than this can sometimes hurt you
but if you're a player who usually bets against faves it can often help you
I believe I got a good bet in this race at Delta Downs
there was no huge late bet down
https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...22&cy=USA&rn=2
.
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believe only half of what you see.....and nothing that you hear..................Edgar Allan Poe
Last edited by Half Smoke; 11-09-2022 at 04:01 PM.
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11-09-2022, 05:54 PM
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#9
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Speed is KING...No long straightaways for the pressers and sustained animals to catch up.
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-09-2022, 05:55 PM
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#10
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Hero
A lot higher percentage of the pools at the smaller tracks is CAW money, stable money, smart handicapper money...than at the bigger tracks.
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That has never been proven
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-10-2022, 09:46 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
Speed is KING...No long straightaways for the pressers and sustained animals to catch up.
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I think sharper turns can also be an underrated part of speed being an advantage at the physically smaller tracks on smaller circuits.
The sharper the turn the harder it is to accelerate without bearing out. So on a small track, at the point in the race where mid pack horses and closers should normally being putting themselves in a position to win, they can't make up as much ground as they might at Belmont or even at a 9F track like AQU etc.. That leaves them with more work to do in the stretch.
You also see that on some turf courses that are inside dirt courses, though turf races develop differently so it's not nearly as big a problem for the closers.
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"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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11-10-2022, 12:21 PM
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#12
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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First track I attended and actually WAGERED, was the old 4 furlong bull ring at the LA Country Fair.. A COMPLETE ROOKIE, I bet speed all program and wound up with the (regrettable) belief that I had figured out the entire game .
Lo and behold, I then attended the inaugural Oak Tree at Santa Anita using what I thought was the "secret" I had discovered at Pomona...I got wiped out financially before the 6th race cleared. Thought it was a singularly Bad day, but after repeating the same experience over and over at Oak Tree, I began to study pace in earnest
Over the ensuing years, with more experienced under my belt and the KNOWLEDGE that the Sartin energy distribution concept gave me. I kept records of the race I used to evaluated a field's winners (the early/later balance) and was able to discern where (AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WHEN....what time of year that is) various speed favoring tracks that ran almost consistently that way and kept my play associated with them.
Of course, these speed data did not fit turf racing, where the "trip" is usually far more important that almost anything else.
The late Tommy Wolski,a retried rider who had a Sovereign winning TV showing Vancouver, explained to me, from his experience riding East Coast ovals in the late Fall and Winter, that SPEED is even MORE important a factor when it got really cold and wet. "When it gets close to freezing, small amounts of ice form around small bits of the dirt on the track...If you are not OUT in front, you and your horse are subjected to a "rooster tail" of sharp sided missiles ( a hardened frozen piece of dirt encapsulated in ice) flying back at you. No horse wants to move into that barrage. Being out front on days like that insures that mount of having a clear ride with fewer mid to late moves able to catch you.
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-10-2022, 05:23 PM
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#13
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Howwith does all running styles etc have anything to do with your 10-1 leaving the gate
coming home at 6-5?
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11-11-2022, 05:25 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,287
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____________
how sharp could a plunger be if he bets $5K into a tiny win pool and crushes down his own payout to peanuts if his pick wins_________?
when he could have bet the same $5K at Belmont or Santa Anita and it would have had little effect on the payout
methinks not too sharp
.
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believe only half of what you see.....and nothing that you hear..................Edgar Allan Poe
Last edited by Half Smoke; 11-11-2022 at 05:27 AM.
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11-11-2022, 07:28 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Beaverdam Virginia
Posts: 12,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
First track I attended and actually WAGERED, was the old 4 furlong bull ring at the LA Country Fair.. A COMPLETE ROOKIE, I bet speed all program and wound up with the (regrettable) belief that I had figured out the entire game .
Lo and behold, I then attended the inaugural Oak Tree at Santa Anita using what I thought was the "secret" I had discovered at Pomona...I got wiped out financially before the 6th race cleared. Thought it was a singularly Bad day, but after repeating the same experience over and over at Oak Tree, I began to study pace in earnest
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What year was your Pomona debut? I loved that place, I first went in 1980.
With Southern California not opening OTBs till the mid 80's. I had a half dozen years enjoying the novice money the fair brought in as admission was free after you paid at the fair gate. We would go hang out in the beer garden watching college football and discussing the races before first post.
As for Santa Anita the winter meet had a strong speed bias for couple weeks at it's start in 1986. Other than hitting pick sixes that was the best week I ever had.
Last edited by Inner Dirt; 11-11-2022 at 07:29 PM.
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