Los Al Done?

[SuperPickle]

Apparently there was a zoning meeting in Cypress to discuss the rezoning of Los Al which would end racing.

I just read about it on Twitter and can't find an article.

Oh and kicker is Doc Alred is asking for the zoning change. Not sure if it's an estate issue or what.

So it looks like once Doc dies racing ends.

Once someone writes an article please post it.

[sharkie187]

I saw the same tweets, another person stated that the plant manager probably wanted support for the redevelopment of the land and possibly didn't like Michelle Yu's question that Doc left Los Al to the church in his will.

[burnsy]

These discussions always crack me up. Zoning, selling for the real estate and all the other "technicalities". Somehow most racing fans and gamblers are these bolstering "market" people until it comes to race tracks. Then its the blues crying like any other "fan".

Here's some real criteria. If they are looking at turning it into something else, its probably not that good to begin with.

Do people show up? Is there any "live" attendance at all?

What about handle? I'm not talking the total. I'm talking the total number of people actually betting it and following it. The guy that bets 2 bucks and 5 bucks is the places life blood. When will they figure this out? That's a fan base.

Are there more than 5 horses in a race? Is it worth following at all?


Here's a hint when conversations like this come up, the place is usually struggling. If it were not for the casino money this kind of talk would be all over the map. But you can read and listen to people yelling at the top of their lungs how great things are going.

Its the Monster Mash...........Its a graveyard smash......

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by burnsy

But you can read and listen to people yelling at the top of their lungs how great things are going.

Really? Where?

[SuperPickle]

Here's the thing. Stabling issue aside I think SoCal Racing is better without Los Al. The quality is awful. You could still cobble together a 7-8 month meet without Los Al.

Everyone will lose it because this is the end year round racing but in the end the top 3-5 guys will open NY divisions and we'll move on.

I hope racing in SoCal can survive as a fall/winter thing.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Really? Where?

Go to any monthly CHRB meeting - or listen to the audio. Or sit through any of the CHRB's committee meetings.

You will be treated to a constant parade of speakers representing various Cal racing groups... TOC, CTT, CHRB, OTBs, track management, union reps, etc... all bemoaning the fact that handle is dropping - and as a result - revenue for the budgets of their particular organization keeps shrinking too - and the only 'solution' they can see is to cut dates, cut hours, layoff more workers, etc.

But try talking to them about anything customer oriented - for example suggest that maybe 22.68% exacta takeout might be a bit too much on the high side...

And suddenly they turn into cheerleaders -- and they will tell you how great things are.

I'm not kidding about this. I've experienced it many times.

I first experienced this phenomenon back in 2009 or 2010 at a CHRB meeting when I argued against a takeout increase at Los AL that Doc Alred wanted because he "didn't know what else to do."

I told them their revenue projections were flawed because they wen't accounting for the fall off in handle that would result from higher takeout.

Everyone from every one of the Cal Racing alphabet groups was sure that higher takeout has zero effect on handle.

I experienced this same phenomenon a few months later at Los AL at when the CHRB wanted a follow up meeting because Los Al's on track handle was down 26%-27% vs. the prior year because of their takeout increase. Yet Los Al track management was telling the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine."

I experienced this phenomenon a few months later at a CHRB meeting at Del Mar - where despite Los Al's on track handle being down 26-27% in the 6 months immediately following their takeout increase - Los Al track management once again told the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine" and the Commissioners of the CHRB voted unanimously to make Los Al's takeout increase permanent.

All you have to do to experience this phenomenon yourself is get involved.


-jp

.

[Dave Schwartz]

What about handle? I'm not talking the total. I'm talking the total number of people actually betting it and following it. The guy that bets 2 bucks and 5 bucks is the places life blood. When will they figure this out? That's a fan base.

Not since about 1995 or so.

I mean, in the age of million dollar handle it takes 200,000 $5 bets to make a million dollars. Those $5 players -perhaps actually betting $20 per race on a 9-race card - means that they need 5,500 of them daily.

Sorry, but I do not believe that is THEIR TARGET market.

This is a lot like going to a modern restaurant for dinner for the first time (i.e. where they don't know that you're a great tipper and all-round great guy).

If you announce that you don't want appetizers or alcohol, the server's face glazes over as if they are checking out of the entire process because they know you're just not going to run up the check, and, hence, not much chance of a big payday for them.

Or imagine you're in a casino. You have a problem with someone or some thing. You go to management and the first thing they do is check your player card. If you don't have a reasonable (or higher) amount of action shown on the account, you get that same glazed look.


Same for the track. They just don't care whether you and your $50 total bankroll show up or not.

Is racing worse for this? You bet it is. But it is reality.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Go to any monthly CHRB meeting - or listen to the audio. Or sit through any of the CHRB's committee meetings.

You will be treated to a constant parade of speakers representing various Cal racing groups... TOC, CTT, CHRB, OTBs, track management, union reps, etc... all bemoaning the fact that handle is dropping - and as a result - revenue for the budgets of their particular organization keeps shrinking too - and the only 'solution' they can see is to cut dates, cut hours, layoff more workers, etc.

But try talking to them about anything customer oriented - for example suggest that maybe 22.68% exacta takeout might be a bit too much on the high side...

And suddenly they turn into cheerleaders -- and they will tell you how great things are.

I'm not kidding about this. I've experienced it many times.

I first experienced this phenomenon back in 2009 or 2010 at a CHRB meeting when I argued against a takeout increase at Los AL that Doc Alred wanted because he "didn't know what else to do."

I told them their revenue projections were flawed because they wen't accounting for the fall off in handle that would result from higher takeout.

Everyone from every one of the Cal Racing alphabet groups was sure that higher takeout has zero effect on handle.

I experienced this same phenomenon a few months later at Los AL at when the CHRB wanted a follow up meeting because Los Al's on track handle was down 26%-27% vs. the prior year because of their takeout increase. Yet Los Al track management was telling the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine."

I experienced this phenomenon a few months later at a CHRB meeting at Del Mar - where despite Los Al's on track handle being down 26-27% in the 6 months immediately following their takeout increase - Los Al track management once again told the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine" and the Commissioners of the CHRB voted unanimously to make Los Al's takeout increase permanent.

All you have to do to experience this phenomenon yourself is get involved.


-jp

.

Spot on post, as usual.

I think horsemen view a 'takeout raise' as money directly out of their pocket, they don't understand that when take rises, people bet less, how else could you explain the 'exchange' between Madeline Auerbach and Andy Asaro other than not knowing the takeout/handle relationship?

[Jeff P]

I laughed when I heard the audio of Madeline Auerbach's exchange with Andy.

FYI at my very first CHRB meeting I had a similar exchange with Bo Derek.

Bo tried to argue that racing takeout was lower than slot machine takeout. I shot back that racing takeout was 21% blended and that (nationally) slot machine prize payout percentages were roughly 93% (approximate takeout 7%.)

Before she could answer back (then) CHRB commissioner John Harris grabbed her elbow and stopped her. I can't recall his exact words but it was something like "You're wrong. Slot machine takeout hasn't been that high since the mid 1970's."

You're right about one thing though.

It was (and still is) eye opening (to me) just how little (most of) the commissioners of the CHRB knew/know about the business side of gaming/gambling.

Just as my experience in computer programming, designing and coding algorithms, and my experiences as a significant bettor and horseplayer advocate in no way shape or form qualifies me to own or train horses...

THEIR experiences as horse owners, horse advocates, and/or trainers in no way shape or form qualifies them to make business decisions about the gambling side of a game they were politically appointed to oversee.


-jp

.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

I laughed when I heard the audio of Madeline Auerbach's exchange with Andy.

FYI at my very first CHRB meeting I had a similar exchange with Bo Derek.

Bo tried to argue that racing takeout was lower than slot machine takeout. I shot back that racing takeout was 21% blended and that (nationally) slot machine prize payout percentages were roughly 93% (approximate takeout 7%.)

Before she could answer back (then) CHRB commissioner John Harris grabbed her elbow and stopped her. I can't recall his exact words but it was something like "You're wrong. Slot machine takeout hasn't been that high since the mid 1970's."

You're right about one thing though.

It was (and still is) eye opening (to me) just how little (most of) the commissioners of the CHRB knew/know about the business side of gaming/gambling.

Just as my experience in computer programming, designing and coding algorithms, and my experiences as a significant bettor and horseplayer advocate in no way shape or form qualifies me to own or train horses...

THEIR experiences as horse owners, horse advocates, and/or trainers in no way shape or form qualifies them to make business decisions about the gambling side of a game they were politically appointed to oversee.


-jp

.

It's the 'you've never Been on the backside so I know more than you' argument. Shovel a litte hay and scoop a little poop and become a full fledged handicapping and gambling expert!

[deathandgravity]

http://www.drf.com/news/part-los-ala...senior-housing

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Go to any monthly CHRB meeting - or listen to the audio. Or sit through any of the CHRB's committee meetings.

You will be treated to a constant parade of speakers representing various Cal racing groups... TOC, CTT, CHRB, OTBs, track management, union reps, etc... all bemoaning the fact that handle is dropping - and as a result - revenue for the budgets of their particular organization keeps shrinking too - and the only 'solution' they can see is to cut dates, cut hours, layoff more workers, etc.

But try talking to them about anything customer oriented - for example suggest that maybe 22.68% exacta takeout might be a bit too much on the high side...

And suddenly they turn into cheerleaders -- and they will tell you how great things are.

I'm not kidding about this. I've experienced it many times.

I first experienced this phenomenon back in 2009 or 2010 at a CHRB meeting when I argued against a takeout increase at Los AL that Doc Alred wanted because he "didn't know what else to do."

I told them their revenue projections were flawed because they wen't accounting for the fall off in handle that would result from higher takeout.

Everyone from every one of the Cal Racing alphabet groups was sure that higher takeout has zero effect on handle.

I experienced this same phenomenon a few months later at Los AL at when the CHRB wanted a follow up meeting because Los Al's on track handle was down 26%-27% vs. the prior year because of their takeout increase. Yet Los Al track management was telling the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine."

I experienced this phenomenon a few months later at a CHRB meeting at Del Mar - where despite Los Al's on track handle being down 26-27% in the 6 months immediately following their takeout increase - Los Al track management once again told the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine" and the Commissioners of the CHRB voted unanimously to make Los Al's takeout increase permanent.

All you have to do to experience this phenomenon yourself is get involved.


-jp

.

Do you see anything, anything at all, that can be said or done, to make these politically appointed guardians of the game see things properly, and then follow through with constructive actions? Is there any angle that can be taken that would overwhelmingly encourage these folks to actually move forward in a constructive manner to improve the health of the industry? Would boycotts actually work? Or, theoretically, it should work, but wouldn't? Are they uneducated, or just self-serving? Is it useless to think they even could be constructive, even if they embraced the actions that are needed? Or is this just a doomed enterprise, and maybe the best thing for themselves and those interested parties that support them to do is to look out for themselves while they have the power to do so? Would this industry survive a big "look out for the customer" effort on their part? Or would the industry collapse without the extraordinary efforts made on behalf of the horsemen's most banal and simple wants and needs? Do those parties require the support they receive to survive in the present environment, both specifically the horse racing environment, and in general, the overall gambling industry environment?

Thanks in advance. I know I threw a hodge-podge of questions and issues out there in a not so articulate manner.

And thanks for your interest and efforts in the game and best of luck in your endeavors. We need many, many more people like yourself involved.

[whodoyoulike]

I guess he's just being prudent. Now, if he sells to CHDN, we'll know his true motives. Sort of sounds like stories before HP was sold.

Los Alamitos track owner Ed Allred said Tuesday that plans are under way to develop property adjacent to the racetrack for retail and senior housing, but that a long-term commitment to live racing remains in place at the Orange County, Calif., racetrack.

Allred said in a phone interview that as much as 70 acres can be developed without disrupting racing. He said property values make operating a racetrack in Southern California economically unfeasible, but that he plans to do so for the sake of the game. ...

[Track Collector]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

Do you see anything, anything at all, that can be said or done, to make these politically appointed guardians of the game see things properly, and then follow through with constructive actions? Is there any angle that can be taken that would overwhelmingly encourage these folks to actually move forward in a constructive manner to improve the health of the industry? Would boycotts actually work? Or, theoretically, it should work, but wouldn't? Are they uneducated, or just self-serving? Is it useless to think they even could be constructive, even if they embraced the actions that are needed? Or is this just a doomed enterprise, and maybe the best thing for themselves and those interested parties that support them to do is to look out for themselves while they have the power to do so? Would this industry survive a big "look out for the customer" effort on their part? Or would the industry collapse without the extraordinary efforts made on behalf of the horsemen's most banal and simple wants and needs? Do those parties require the support they receive to survive in the present environment, both specifically the horse racing environment, and in general, the overall gambling industry environment?

Thanks in advance. I know I threw a hodge-podge of questions and issues out there in a not so articulate manner.

And thanks for your interest and efforts in the game and best of luck in your endeavors. We need many, many more people like yourself involved.

Jeff will have a much-more informed response, but I am going to go out on a limb and say many are self-serving, AND, too afraid/embarrassed to admit a mistake when presented with the facts.

Dittos on the thanks for your involvement.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Go to any monthly CHRB meeting - or listen to the audio. Or sit through any of the CHRB's committee meetings.

You will be treated to a constant parade of speakers representing various Cal racing groups... TOC, CTT, CHRB, OTBs, track management, union reps, etc... all bemoaning the fact that handle is dropping - and as a result - revenue for the budgets of their particular organization keeps shrinking too - and the only 'solution' they can see is to cut dates, cut hours, layoff more workers, etc.

But try talking to them about anything customer oriented - for example suggest that maybe 22.68% exacta takeout might be a bit too much on the high side...

And suddenly they turn into cheerleaders -- and they will tell you how great things are.

I'm not kidding about this. I've experienced it many times.

I first experienced this phenomenon back in 2009 or 2010 at a CHRB meeting when I argued against a takeout increase at Los AL that Doc Alred wanted because he "didn't know what else to do."

I told them their revenue projections were flawed because they wen't accounting for the fall off in handle that would result from higher takeout.

Everyone from every one of the Cal Racing alphabet groups was sure that higher takeout has zero effect on handle.

I experienced this same phenomenon a few months later at Los AL at when the CHRB wanted a follow up meeting because Los Al's on track handle was down 26%-27% vs. the prior year because of their takeout increase. Yet Los Al track management was telling the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine."

I experienced this phenomenon a few months later at a CHRB meeting at Del Mar - where despite Los Al's on track handle being down 26-27% in the 6 months immediately following their takeout increase - Los Al track management once again told the CHRB "we couldn't be happier" and "we are doing just fine" and the Commissioners of the CHRB voted unanimously to make Los Al's takeout increase permanent.

All you have to do to experience this phenomenon yourself is get involved.


-jp

.

Respectfully......Much appreciated details and passion for this game. Thank you!