Religion III

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Light

Jesus taught prayer, not scripture.

Jesus quoted different parts of the Ten Commandments on four separate occasions:

Matthew 5:21 – Exodus 20:13
Matthew 5:27 – Exodus 20:14
Matthew 15:4 & Mark 7:10 – Exodus 20:12, Deut 5:16
Matthew 19:19 & Mark 10:19 & Luke 18:20 – Exodus 20:12-16, Deut 5:16-20

In addition, Jesus quoted these scriptures twice:

Hosea 6:6 – For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. (Matthew 9:13 and Matthew 12:7)

Leviticus 19:18 – Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. (Matthew 5:43, Matthew 22:39 (with a repeat in Mark 12:31)

Jesus repeatedly gave us very clear instructions through SCRIPTURE.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

In all seriousness, any advice that promotes the use of corporal punishment in a vengeful way provides no guidance for me.

Do you think the Proverbs passage is teaching to administer corporal punishment in "vengeful" way?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

It makes no difference who Jesus was talking to. What Jesus said in John 5:39-40 applies to everyone and especially to you.

Jesus never commanded, or encouraged, his followers to study scripture.

Yeah, it does make a difference who he is talking to. In communication that little hermeneutical item is called context.

Also, you're wrong about what Jesus commanded. Through the Apostle, the post-resurrected Christ commanded this:

2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.
NASB

Also, read Psalms 19 and 119 someday.

And Eternal Life comes through the Word of God.

John 12:48-50
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words ; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
NIV

And,

John 6:63
63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
NASB

Ignore God's Word at your own peril! But be assured that after you take your last breath on this earth, his Word will catch up to you on the last day. Jesus (the Living Word of God) will not ignore you!

[Light]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Jesus quoted different parts of the Ten Commandments on four separate occasions:

Matthew 5:21 – Exodus 20:13
Matthew 5:27 – Exodus 20:14
Matthew 15:4 & Mark 7:10 – Exodus 20:12, Deut 5:16
Matthew 19:19 & Mark 10:19 & Luke 18:20 – Exodus 20:12-16, Deut 5:16-20

In addition, Jesus quoted these scriptures twice:

Hosea 6:6 – For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. (Matthew 9:13 and Matthew 12:7)

Leviticus 19:18 – Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. (Matthew 5:43, Matthew 22:39 (with a repeat in Mark 12:31)

Jesus repeatedly gave us very clear instructions through SCRIPTURE.

Everyone knows Jesus referenced scripture. But he never taught it. He taught prayer.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah, it does make a difference who he is talking to. In communication that little hermeneutical item is called context.

Also, you're wrong about what Jesus commanded. Through the Apostle, the post-resurrected Christ commanded this:

2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.
NASB

Also, read Psalms 19 and 119 someday.

And Eternal Life comes through the Word of God.

John 12:48-50
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words ; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
NIV

And,

John 6:63
63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
NASB

Ignore God's Word at your own peril! But be assured that after you take your last breath on this earth, his Word will catch up to you on the last day. Jesus (the Living Word of God) will not ignore you!

When Jesus was dying on the cross, did he reference scripture or prayer? Did he start quoting the verses RR pulled up for me? Or did he pray directly to God with all his heart? You are pathetic.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

When Jesus was dying on the cross, did he reference scripture or prayer? Did he start quoting the verses RR pulled up for me? Or did he pray directly to God with all his heart? You are pathetic.

What does your ignorant comment have to do with the subject on hand!? Jesus prayed very often and he, the prophets and the apostles all held the scriptures in highest esteem! Whereas you are dismissive of their importance.

Listen up, you wanna-be spiritual-know-it-all: One cannot have eternal life unless he's born of the Spirit and the Word of God, no more than one can have physical life unless he was conceived by two physical entities!

1 Peter 1:23-25
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

"All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord stands forever."

And this is the word that was preached to you.
NIV

And,

Eph 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
NIV


This is why Jesus told Nicodemus:

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
NIV

You are no child of God! For anyone truly born of God would never malign, discount, dismiss or even deny the fundamental and critical importance of the Word of God in their life.

Why do you think, you son of the serpent, that Jesus himself is called the Word of God!? His Name isn't prayer!

Rev 19:13
13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God
NIV

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Everyone knows Jesus referenced scripture. But he never taught it. He taught prayer.

That's why people of his day -- even his detractors -- called him "Rabbi" which means Teacher!?

There's only one record in scripture of Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray and that's when he taught them the Lord's Prayer.

Why are you so willfully ignorant? Do you think when you die you'll be able to plead your ignorance before the Judge of men and that he'll acquit you!?

Luke 24:25-33
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 And beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. 28 And they approached the village where they were going, and He acted as though He would go farther. 29 And they urged Him, saying, "Stay with us, for it is getting toward evening, and the day is now nearly over." And He went in to stay with them. 30 And it came about that when He had reclined at the table with them, He took the bread and blessed it, and breaking it, He began giving it to them. 31 And their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. 32 And they said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"
NASB

And,

Luke 24:45
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
NIV


Do something useless in life: Go rub Buddha's big jelly belly and pray to it and do it in secret in your prayer closet. At least you won't embarrass yourself over here.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What does your ignorant comment have to do with the subject on hand!?

Ummm, I am the one who brought up the subject that you and RR responded to, so i would know if I am still on track.

Why don't you ask RR what we are discussing and get back to me.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Ummm, I am the one who brought up the subject that you and RR responded to, so i would know if I am still on track.

Why don't you ask RR what we are discussing and get back to me.

I posted my rebuttals with scripture. Take them or leave them. But again, there is only ONE record in scriptures of Jesus teaching prayer. Plus I proved that Jesus did teach out of HIS scriptures, which makes you a liar, since you claimed he only taught prayer.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

There's only one record in scripture of Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray and that's when he taught them the Lord's Prayer.

Not true. In The sermon on the Mount alone there were 2 occasions.

Elsewhere in the Gospels we have other information that Jesus gave his disciples about conditions for effective prayer. We need to pray in faith, namely believing that God can answer our prayers (Mark 5:25-34; 7:24-30). He charged His disciples to ask God to thrust laborers out into the harvest fields (Matt. 9:38). He urged fervency in prayer (Matt. 26:36-39). Jesus was continually in prayer mode from birth to death.

A major teaching of prayer that Jesus taught that you don't get is that the Old Testament spoke of God as the Father of the nation of Israel collectively, but it never referred to Him as the Father of individuals until Jesus and the NT.

Jesus taught us to think of God when we approach him in prayer as a loving father who is in Heaven.

Jesus gave his teaching that the gift of the Holy Spirit was the best gift that God gave people. He gave it only selectively in the Old Testament. But Jesus said that God's indwelling Spirit is in all his children (Rom. 8:9),we do not need to ask God for his Spirit. That's why Jesus said "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you" which you deny.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Do something useless in life: Go rub Buddha's big jelly belly and pray to it and do it in secret in your prayer closet. At least you won't embarrass yourself over here.

That shows how ignorant and disrespectful you are of other religions. All religions have the same God with different names. God rules them all. You have just sinned against God without knowing it by making fun of him. This is why your spiritual IQ is severely lacking.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Do something useless in life: Go rub Buddha's big jelly belly and pray to it and do it in secret in your prayer closet. At least you won't embarrass yourself over here.

Not Buddha's belly, but a prayer to reason and something you lack, common sense...Here is a Suttra (the Buddha’s words, or a guru’s commentary on the Buddha’s words). Sort of a Zen prayer, although not exactly in the Abrahamic tradition.

.....that may be recited as prayer.

I am sure Jesus would agree

The Kesamutti Sutta is also used for advocating prudence by the use of sound logical reasoning arguments for inquiries in the practice that relates to the discipline of seeking truth, wisdom and knowledge whether it is religious or not..

.................................................. .....

As Buddha passes through the village of Kesaputta, he delivers in response a sermon that serves as an entry point to the "Dhamma", the Buddhist teachings which uphold the natural order of the universe.......

Kalama Sutra
https://www.dailyzen.com/journal/kalama-sutra

Just the beginning.....

Kalamas, you ought to question, you ought to wonder; your doubts have arisen concerning things you should question. Come, Kalamas,

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of oral tradition;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of customary practice;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of scriptural citation;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of logical inference;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of reasoned deduction;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because of thinking according to appearances;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because it holds up to (or goes against) one's views;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because the speaker appears (or does not appear) credible;

do not accept (or reject) something as true merely because the speaker is (or is not) one's teacher.

Kalamas, whenever you yourselves know that these things are unwholesome; these things are harmful; these things are criticized by the wise; and when practiced according to their own standard, these things bring suffering and have no benefit, then you ought to abandon such things.

Kalamas, how do you regard the following: When greed arises in someone does it arise for their benefit or not?

"Not for any benefit."

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Not Buddha's belly, but a prayer to reason and something you lack, common sense...Here is a Suttra (the Buddha’s words, or a guru’s commentary on the Buddha’s words). Sort of a Zen prayer, although not exactly in the Abrahamic tradition.

.....that may be recited as prayer.

I am sure Jesus would agree

The Kesamutti Sutta is also used for advocating prudence by the use of sound logical reasoning arguments for inquiries in the practice that relates to the discipline of seeking truth, wisdom and knowledge whether it is religious or not..

.................................................. .....

As Buddha passes through the village of Kesaputta, he delivers in response a sermon that serves as an entry point to the "Dhamma", the Buddhist teachings which uphold the natural order of the universe.......

Kalama Sutra
https://www.dailyzen.com/journal/kalama-sutra

Just the beginning.....

Prayer requires and object. To whom is guru praying?

Real lessons on prayer can be had in the Book of Psalms that contains prayer of every kind.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Not true. In The sermon on the Mount alone there were 2 occasions.

Elsewhere in the Gospels we have other information that Jesus gave his disciples about conditions for effective prayer. We need to pray in faith, namely believing that God can answer our prayers (Mark 5:25-34; 7:24-30). He charged His disciples to ask God to thrust laborers out into the harvest fields (Matt. 9:38). He urged fervency in prayer (Matt. 26:36-39). Jesus was continually in prayer mode from birth to death.

A major teaching of prayer that Jesus taught that you don't get is that the Old Testament spoke of God as the Father of the nation of Israel collectively, but it never referred to Him as the Father of individuals until Jesus and the NT.

Jesus taught us to think of God when we approach him in prayer as a loving father who is in Heaven.

Jesus gave his teaching that the gift of the Holy Spirit was the best gift that God gave people. He gave it only selectively in the Old Testament. But Jesus said that God's indwelling Spirit is in all his children (Rom. 8:9),we do not need to ask God for his Spirit. That's why Jesus said "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you" which you deny.





That shows how ignorant and disrespectful you are of other religions. All religions have the same God with different names. God rules them all. You have just sinned against God without knowing it by making fun of him. This is why your spiritual IQ is severely lacking.

Cite the passages in the Sermon on Mount where Jesus taught people how to pray.

Also, The Spirit is given only To God's children. Read Romans carefully, and quit quoting stuff out of context. The children of God is not everyone on the planet.

The two Markian passages cite have nothing to do with prayer.

Jesus' ministry on earth did not focus on teaching prayer. His ministry was singularly focused on preaching and teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. He came to preach and teach TRUTH.

Also, as I just pointed out to the other reprobate on this thread, Jesus didn't have to spend a whole lot of time teaching people how to pray. The Book of Psalms is an excellent "instruction manual" on prayer!

So, Big Bud is a god, heh? Well then..the next time you're out in your favorite watering hole, break one open and have one on Hcap.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Prayer requires and object. To whom is guru praying?

Real lessons on prayer can be had in the Book of Psalms that contains prayer of every kind.

Idol worship requires an "object". Not reflection on profound truths.

What guru?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Idol worship requires an "object". Not reflection on the profound truths.

What guru?

The guru you mentioned in your post, Mr. Senility.

Reflection isn't prayer. On the other hand, it could be prayer when directed to the idol of SELF.