Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I didn't order the slaughter of anyone or any animals.

So you're a vegetarian?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

So you're a vegetarian?

On some days.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

On some days.

And on the other days?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Who's being inhuman: God? I didn't order the slaughter of anyone or any animals.

Yes, your cruel spiteful inhuman god did a number of times. You cheer him, her, or it on like it's a very stupid biblical gong show.

My full statement...

It's my duty to humanity to show inhumanity to infants and yes even farm animals. You are as confused as Replay.

Here's god hiding in plain sight like Chumpy, bur "revealing" himself to you. (You gotta peak under the bag like Chuck Barris did)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Yes, your cruel spiteful inhuman god did a number of times. You cheer him, her, or it on like it's a very stupid biblical gong show.

My full statement...
Here's god hiding in plain sight like Chumpy, bur "revealing" himself to you. (You gotta peak under the bag like Chuck Barris did)

You should be thankful that a thrice Holy God has not poured his wrath upon you personally, which is what all sinners deserve. If you demand that God treat everyone fairly, then giving to all sinners his cup of wrath and making all us all drink it would be eminently fair. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of glory of God", including you, sir.

And God has revealed himself in his holy book to all want to know and understand him.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

And on the other days?

Whatever I feel like.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Whatever I feel like.

Like a nice juicy beefsteak, maybe? Maybe a Big Mac?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And God has revealed himself in his holy book to all want to know and understand him.

How do you know that this book is really God's revelation and not just the writings of some A.N.E. Joseph Smith?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Actor

How do you know that this book is really God's revelation and not just the writings of some A.N.E. Joseph Smith?

How can there be any doubt that the bible is authored by God? Can't you see how well it has united all the world's Christians?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should be thankful that a thrice Holy God has not poured his wrath upon you personally, which is what all sinners deserve. If you demand that God treat everyone fairly, then giving to all sinners his cup of wrath and making all us all drink it would be eminently fair. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of glory of God", including you, sir.

And God has revealed himself in his holy book to all want to know and understand him.

Yeah, sure al all have sinned. Including newborns and their moms. and their pets.

Eh, excuse me but you are full of it up to your eyeballs.

If you were a parent you might think very differently about your cruel deity murdering newborns.

Then again, from your cold bitterness and misogyny in your haughty judgemental poss, maybe not.

As a Jew, I am a better Christian than you

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

True story: A professor in some ethics class, who happened to be a Christian, gave an assignment to his class to write a paper on any ethics-related subject they wanted. He gave them the parameters, the guidelines, length of the paper, how it must be documented, etc. and told them when the paper would become due. One atheist wrote on the topic of moral relativism, claiming of course there are no such things as absolute values. Moral decisions were dictated primarily by circumstances or situations, according to the student who actually wrote a very eloquent paper -- one that met all the professor's requirements. The student turned in his paper and a week or so later, the professor graded them all and at the end of the class left everyone's folders on his desk to be reclaimed by the students. The professor graded this young man's folder in bold writing on the cover:**"F -- I don't like your blue folder."*After the student attended all the rest of his classes for the day, he returned to the professor's office steaming hot mad! He demanded to know the real reason for the failing grade. He protested vigorously that he had done everything the professor had wanted him to do. He told the professor that his grade was*unfair. The professor allowed the kid to vent his anger and frustration and then quietly asked, "Didn't you write that there aren't any objective moral values in this world?" The atheist admitted that he had. The professor then said, "Well, then, what is your beef? I don't like your blue folder. How am I unfair for not liking the color blue?**By what standard do you judge me to be unfair?"*Moral to the story: Moral Relativism is great, providing you're not on the receiving end of it. The kid, by the way, got the message loud and clear.

I've heard this story before. It's Orwell's 1984.

When you say "The kid got the message loud and clear" I kind of doubt it. The lesson the kid learned was more likely that those in power make the rules and, until you yourself have obtained a position of power, you don't buck those in power. You say you believe one thing while believing the opposite.

It's not clear from your story whether the professor changed the kid's grade once the kid "got the message." If he did change the grade then he admits that the kid had some valid points. One the other hand if he stuck to his guns and let the F stand (or if he demanded the kid rewrite the paper) then he has proven the kids point.

Of course a college kid age 18-21 has no power. Kissing the Prof's ass (figuratively speaking) is the way to handle it (if it works). If it doesn't work there are other ways to deal with the professor.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Yeah, sure al all have sinned. Including newborns and their moms. and their pets.

Eh, excuse me but you are full of it up to your eyeballs.

If you were a parent you might think very differently about your cruel deity murdering newborns.

Then again, from your cold bitterness and misogyny in your haughty judgemental poss, maybe not.

As a Jew, I am a better Christian than you

Again, since the penalty of sin is DEATH and all inevitably sin, therefore, all will DIE the SECOND DEATH, unless God graciously intervenes, then what difference does it make if a person dies coming out of the womb or goes to the tomb at the age of 101? What difference dies it really make in the grand scheme of eternity? That new born will grow up and commit acts of sin -- every single day of his or her life. So, what difference does it make?

Since the penalty of sin is death, God doesn't murder anyone. He simply executes capital punishment upon sinners.

Secondly, and I have explained this numerous times and have provided biblical evidence NUMEROUS times -- when anyone dies who has never attained to the knowledge of good and evil, i.e. newborns, infants, babies, children, it is actually an act of grace on God's part because the biblical evidence indicates Jesus' atoning death on the Cross will wash away Adam's sin, and all such little people will be considered to be righteous before God and enjoy His presence forever and ever in joyful and peaceful bliss.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcaImntercvinesd graciouslyr

Again, since the penalty of sin is DEATH and all inevitably sin, therefore, all will DIE the SECOND DEATH, unless

God graciously intervenes by killing newborns before they had a chance to prove your lunatic assertions? According to your convoluted theory god gave them original sin and then kills them for sinning????.

Makes sense to superstitious irrational believers perhaps, but not to rational believers and rational unbelievers.

And you claim to be a maser of logic

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I've heard this story before. It's Orwell's 1984.

When you say "The kid got the message loud and clear" I kind of doubt it. The lesson the kid learned was more likely that those in power make the rules and, until you yourself have obtained a position of power, you don't buck those in power. You say you believe one thing while believing the opposite.

It's not clear from your story whether the professor changed the kid's grade once the kid "got the message." If he did change the grade then he admits that the kid had some valid points. One the other hand if he stuck to his guns and let the F stand (or if he demanded the kid rewrite the paper) then he has proven the kids point.

Of course a college kid age 18-21 has no power. Kissing the Prof's ass (figuratively speaking) is the way to handle it (if it works). If it doesn't work there are other ways to deal with the professor.

I don't doubt it. The message sent by the professor was crystal clear: What is good to you is not good for me.. And herein lies the crux to moral relativism. And no one has to be in power to practice moral relativism.

Here's a true story told to me a by a good friend who is also an accounting manager for a large shipping company.

My friend (Adam) had temps working in his department and one of them he had to send home one hour early due to more important and pressing matters that he had to take up with auditors. It wasn't because he didn't have work for her but because of time constraints he was unable to spend time with this woman to explain a certain job he had for her and to show her how to do it. He assured the woman that she would make up the hour later on during the week. But she wanted to stay and asked if she could just hang around and clock out when she was supposed to? But he told her again in no uncertain terms that she couldn't do that and she needed to clock out, leave the building and go home and her hour would be made up later during the payroll period.

He left much later that day but before leaving something told him to check this gal's time clock. When he saw in the computer that she disregarded his twice-given order to clock out , he called the temp agency immediately and told an official there that this woman would no longer be working at his company -- that she would be prohibited even from coming into the building because he was going to notify security to ban her. The guy at the temp agency said that he couldn't assure my friend that he would be able to notify her at the late hour, but my buddy told him that that was his problem. One way or the other, she would not be allowed to enter the work area where she had her workstation.

So, let me explain this situation to you. This gal was obviously a moral relativist. And she thought that the end (getting her time in) justified the means (hanging out, doing nothing and getting paid for it). Just as obvious is that her good was someone else's evil. She was not guided by any objective, outside moral standards. She used her own personal, subjective standards and ultimately paid the penalty.

She learned (maybe!) the same lesson the student did: "What is good for you, may not be good for me.".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

God graciously intervenes by killing newborns before they had a chance to prove your lunatic assertions? According to your convoluted theory god gave them original sin and then kills them for sinning????.

Makes sense to superstitious irrational believers perhaps, but not to rational believers and rational unbelievers.

And you claim to be a maser of logic

What part of "inevitable" don't you get? WE all come into this world with sinful natures, therefore, it's inevitable all of us will sin.

Ps 58:3
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.
NASB

And,

Ps 51:5
5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
NASB

We sin because we ARE (in our very essence, nature) sinners. That is what we all ARE from birth! Look up the definition of "are".

A leopard would change its spots first and the Ethopian the color of skin, as well, long before we stop sinning.