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Old 01-02-2019, 07:16 PM   #9136
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The stupidity of your constantly saying God only saves some people is beyond belief...
I think that you can say that God only saves some people.
Did or would God save Hitler?
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:17 PM   #9137
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Very cheap shot. You know very well that Mat 22:32; Mk 12:27; Lk 20:38 are referencing events in the Bible and not defining who God will save.
What events?

But the text is defining the kind of people of whom God is the God and Father. If you weren't so ignorant of the bible, you would understand that Abraham, Issac and Jacob were God's chosen people. And if you don't believe this, study Romans 9 and you will find that Issac's brother Ishmael was not a child of God because he was not a child of the promise. And likewise, Jacob's twin brother Esau was also rejected as an heir of the eternal inheritance, also. It is only God's chosen vessels of honor. The chapter goes on to say that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and compassion on whom he wills it so, and he'll harden who he wills -- just as he hardened the heart Pharaoh, since he created him to be a vessel of dishonor.

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What those quotes are saying is that through the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that God blessed all the nations of the world.
You finally have said something that is truthful, i.e. biblical, although the three passages themselves are not actually teaching that -- but other passages do, such as the Abrahamic Covenant itself (Genesis 17, etc.). But God never promised that each and every person on the earth in those nations would be blessed -- no more than Rev 7:9 does.

Also, you have just shot yourself in the foot and don't even realize it. If the entire human race, beginning with Adam and ending with the last person to die at the end of the world, is going to be saved, why would God have waited a couple of thousand years to specifically choose Abraham with whom to enter into a covenant, and promise him in that covenant that all the nations of the earth wold be blessed in him ? Since Adam was created directly by Jesus (totally circumventing the procreation process), and in this sense descended from Jesus (Lk 3:38), your theory of universal salvation would require that God should have cut the covenant with Adam because all men are the natural descendants of Adam, and because all Adam's seed beginning with his own progeny would have been blessed. But instead we have a couple of thousand years wherein the vast majority of Adam's seed ends up cursed, judged and condemned. I would remind you, for example, of the Flood wherein only 8 people were saved! But the fact that God waited until Abraham to make the promise of blessing for all nations, tells us that God indeed will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and have compassion on whom he will have compassion --- and he''ll harden the rest!

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You interpret it as God stops his blessings at Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (and their people) and that is reading racism (and elitism) into God. Obviously God is not a racist or he wouldn't have created the other races.
You're lying again. If I interpreted it that way, why would I cite Rev 7:9 which teaches that God's chosen ones are in all the nations of the world? Hint: Try reading the passages I cite.

You will not find so much as one text in all scripture that teaches that God intends to save each and every person that has ever lived. No, not one.

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The stupidity of your constantly saying God only saves some people is beyond belief when the incredibly obvious sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross in the name of all humanity is everywhere.
Quote me one text out of scripture that teaches what you just wrote.

And since when did you come to the realization that Christ's death was a sacrificial death, and not merely a martyr's death as you told us once? Who gave you this remarkable revelation? When did the nature of Christ's death become so "incredibly obvious" to you?

However, the bad news for you is that Christ's death was not ultimately about humanity. In fact, the primary reason Christ was sent into this world by his Father was not for humanity! But you have enough on your platter for now, without tackling, yet, another subject about which you're also completely in the dark. I would suggest you get down on your knees and cry out to your "best friend" and beg him to save you from the black darkness that is in you because every time you open your mouth in this thread, you reveal to all just how little you know.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:22 PM   #9138
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I think that you can say that God only saves some people.
Did or would God save Hitler?
His answer will be that God's love is unconditional in nature. God's love, therefore, does not depend on whether one is righteous or wicked, a saint or a sinner, a fool or a wise man -- for God loves sin (lawlessness) as much as he does virtue. In God's eyes, it's six of one and half a dozen the other. God is love, love, love, love., love, etc., etc. and therefore, God's love accepts everyone and every thing.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:29 AM   #9139
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[/COLOR]



Really? Look up the definition of "mythopoeia". Then you might want to look up the definition of "myth" -- one of which is "a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence." Batman and Robin are imaginary comic book characters; and that makes them fictional characters.

Tackle the questions, please.
The mythopoeia was introduced by Israel's neighbors--their understanding of creation. The inspired polemic response in the same genre, contained Israel's monotheism, YHWH's effortless creation by a Word vs. cosmic battle, etc.

Thinking means connecting thoughts. You prefer to attack isolated thoughts in sentences detached from the whole for some perceived advantage. Careful--there's precedent. "How can man become God"? (Docetism) How can God become man? (Jn 6:42).

Tackle the questions, please.

"Since you align how God, the Author of scripture and science, formed matter into man after creating it, you therefore must be questioning everything in Gen 1-3".
****************************

I tried to provide a brief, basic application to our experience of sin. After forgiveness, there remains the effect of sin; "Why do I do what I hate"? (Rom 17:15ff)

Re:indulgences, article and comments from several former and current Reformed...

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/201...ion-of-saints/

More biblical examples...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davear...dulgences.html

But I don't think you're interested in grasping the thought process, in making the connections in scripture, in the history, even if only to understand someone else's rationale without agreeing. I think you're really wanting a jumpstart to "Boxcar explains scripture to Augustine", but didn't know how to connect the dots in my small example without me elaborating.

Have the last word on Gen 1, and the rest.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:44 AM   #9140
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The mythopoeia was introduced by Israel's neighbors--their understanding of creation. The inspired polemic response in the same genre, contained Israel's monotheism, YHWH's effortless creation by a Word vs. cosmic battle, etc.

Thinking means connecting thoughts. You prefer to attack isolated thoughts in sentences detached from the whole for some perceived advantage. Careful--there's precedent. "How can man become God"? (Docetism) How can God become man? (Jn 6:42).

Tackle the questions, please.

"Since you align how God, the Author of scripture and science, formed matter into man after creating it, you therefore must be questioning everything in Gen 1-3".
****************************

I tried to provide a brief, basic application to our experience of sin. After forgiveness, there remains the effect of sin; "Why do I do what I hate"? (Rom 17:15ff)

Re:indulgences, article and comments from several former and current Reformed...

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/201...ion-of-saints/

More biblical examples...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davear...dulgences.html

But I don't think you're interested in grasping the thought process, in making the connections in scripture, in the history, even if only to understand someone else's rationale without agreeing. I think you're really wanting a jumpstart to "Boxcar explains scripture to Augustine", but didn't know how to connect the dots in my small example without me elaborating.

Have the last word on Gen 1, and the rest.
Addendum:

I tried to provide a brief, basic application to our experience of sin. After forgiveness, there remains the effect of sin; "Why do I do what I hate"? (Rom 17:15ff)



Romans 7:15.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:33 AM   #9141
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The mythopoeia was introduced by Israel's neighbors--their understanding of creation. The inspired polemic response in the same genre, contained Israel's monotheism, YHWH's effortless creation by a Word vs. cosmic battle, etc.
So...Adam and Eve are on par with Batman and Robin? Maybe for different reasons, but there's no substantive difference between the 2 pairs; for both are products of creative imaginations (good pun intended).

Quote:
Thinking means connecting thoughts. You prefer to attack isolated thoughts in sentences detached from the whole for some perceived advantage. Careful--there's precedent. "How can man become God"? (Docetism) How can God become man? (Jn 6:42).

Tackle the questions, please.
What does this have to do with Adam and Eve's existence or not?

Quote:
"Since you align how God, the Author of scripture and science, formed matter into man after creating it, you therefore must be questioning everything in Gen 1-3".
****************************

Scripture tells us that God's ways are past finding out. But please let us know when you think you've mastered the supernatural.

Quote:
I tried to provide a brief, basic application to our experience of sin. After forgiveness, there remains the effect of sin; "Why do I do what I hate"? (Rom 17:15ff)
And so? What does this have to do with anything? The effects of sin gave rise to the doctrine of indulgences because God's grace was not good enough? I'm not understanding.

Re:indulgences, article and comments from several former and current Reformed...

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/201...ion-of-saints/

More biblical examples...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davear...dulgences.html

Quote:
But I don't think you're interested in grasping the thought process, in making the connections in scripture, in the history, even if only to understand someone else's rationale without agreeing. I think you're really wanting a jumpstart to "Boxcar explains scripture to Augustine", but didn't know how to connect the dots in my small example without me elaborating.

Have the last word on Gen 1, and the rest.
I was interested in understanding if Adam and Eve actually existed and if there was an historical fall into sin. And you still haven't given me a straight answer. You're all over the map with non sequiturs, equivocations and red herrings.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:50 AM   #9142
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So...Adam and Eve are on par with Batman and Robin? Maybe for different reasons, but there's no substantive difference between the 2 pairs ...
You mean Batman has sex with Robin?
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:18 PM   #9143
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You mean Batman has sex with Robin?
Why do you ask? You sound shocked in this day and age. Don't tell me you're an atheistic prude.
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:50 PM   #9144
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Why do you ask? You sound shocked in this day and age. Don't tell me you're an atheistic prude.
It's just that Batman does not strike me as the kind who would follow the lead of Catholic priests.

But then he's guilty of child endangerment and seems to get away with it. How did he get custody of the kid in the first place? His being rich had to have something to do with it.
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:28 PM   #9145
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I think that you can say that God only saves some people.
Did or would God save Hitler?
The main argument I would say for God saving Hitler and every other criminal is that if God cannot save a sinner then the sin is greater than God. It means the sin is more powerful than God and that would negate God as the ultimate power in existence. God would be relegated to second in command to the power of sin. In that case the God of Sin, not Love, would rule existence. And we all know that "Love conquers all".
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:04 PM   #9146
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The main argument I would say for God saving Hitler and every other criminal is that if God cannot save a sinner then the sin is greater than God. It means the sin is more powerful than God and that would negate God as the ultimate power in existence. God would be relegated to second in command to the power of sin. In that case the God of Sin, not Love, would rule existence. And we all know that "Love conquers all".
No one ever said that God "cannot" save all. The question becomes: Was it God's intention in eternity to save all, none or many? Consider these words of your "best friend":

Matt 26:21-25
21 And as they were eating, He said, "Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me." 22 And being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 And He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 "The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Surely it is not I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said it yourself."
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Does Jesus' words sound like he had a soft spot in his heart for Judas? Does it sound like Jesus intended good or evil toward Judas for his great sin? Do you think Jesus had a special spot in heaven picked out for Judas?
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:27 PM   #9147
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If the Devil is your Father it would make sense to trash up this thread.

Why not just admit who you are and where you come from?
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:45 PM   #9148
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No one ever said that God "cannot" save all. The question becomes: Was it God's intention in eternity to save all, none or many? Consider these words of your "best friend":

Matt 26:21-25
21 And as they were eating, He said, "Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me." 22 And being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 And He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 "The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Surely it is not I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said it yourself."
NASB

Does Jesus' words sound like he had a soft spot in his heart for Judas? Does it sound like Jesus intended good or evil toward Judas for his great sin? Do you think Jesus had a special spot in heaven picked out for Judas?
Specifically boxcar, no, no, and no. Judas sealed his own fate and admitted it by speaking up.

That's my take on it.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:07 PM   #9149
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But God never promised that each and every person on the earth in those nations would be blessed
God says to Abraham in the Bible Genesis 22

And through your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed

So it isn't only "certain" nations (like Israel) that are blessed. Also you don't understand the meaning of "blessed". Yes it means you have the fortune of God. But it does not mean its "game over" if you are not blessed...yet. We all mature at different rates and come to God on different schedules.


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You will not find so much as one text in all scripture that teaches that God intends to save each and every person that has ever lived. No, not one.
Ummm how about:

Galatians 3:28 kjv

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus




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I would suggest you get down on your knees and cry out to your "best friend" and beg him to save you from the black darkness that is in you because every time you open your mouth in this thread, you reveal to all just how little you know.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:16 PM   #9150
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No one ever said that God "cannot" save all. The question becomes: Was it God's intention in eternity to save all, none or many? Consider these words of your "best friend":

Matt 26:21-25
21 And as they were eating, He said, "Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me." 22 And being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 And He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 "The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Surely it is not I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said it yourself."
NASB

Does Jesus' words sound like he had a soft spot in his heart for Judas? Does it sound like Jesus intended good or evil toward Judas for his great sin? Do you think Jesus had a special spot in heaven picked out for Judas?
I totally agree with what Jesus says here. What you don't get is that God does not give up on his creations who do "bad things". He's not lazy and he has infinite time.

These people who cross others are not taken to Heaven and given a "get out of hell free" card. They do have to "pay for their sins" so to speak. It may be Karma in another lifetime here or it may be "work" they do on the other side.

The bottom line is that God loves unconditionally and that's why he forgives. But its no free lunch. You have to "earn" your "enlightenment".
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