We're in trouble.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Depend upon it, the 5-horse field will be the final nail in horse racing's coffin...as far as the horseplayer is concerned. That "good thing at sub 2-1 odds" will become the 'despised thing at sub 1-1 odds' by the time the horses near the final turn...and we can get such a payoff by engaging in the newly-approved sports-betting gig. We didn't become horseplayers because we were enamored of the $4 win-payoffs...or the $30 trifectas. I am speaking strictly for myself, of course.

I had the same reaction as you to what he said. If I want to bet even-money, I'll switch to sports or blackjack. We got a new casino in the Catskills this year so I might even give poker a try!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Denny

I had the same reaction as you to what he said. If I want to bet even-money, I'll switch to sports or blackjack. We got a new casino in the Catskills this year so I might even give poker a try!

Give poker a shot...just in case.

And if you want...I can recommend a couple of good no-limit holdem books. There is loose money out there...

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston

It would very quickly pay for itself - since it would mean fewer scratches, and therefore larger fields, and with it, more money wagered, and more money made by the track.

The Meadowlands might be ideal. It's only a mile track so that would hold the construction cost down (plus The Meadowlands is already climate controlled for the fans - as is Parx, another suitable candidate). Putting a roof on Belmont, on the other hand, would be hideously expensive - and NYRA is so incompetent that they would still end up with five-horse fields!

Gural already spent 100 million on that band-box of a new grandstand.
The old grandstand is still standing. It was perfectly usable already, just need upgrading.
He never got the slots or casino he was counting on.
Can the sports betting save them?
If they don't get some major help from the State, don't see them surviving.
Can't see them doing a retractable roof.

I know people in the Standardbred Industry that hate what Gural did. Particularly removing all the stabling. You have to ship in for every race. people don't get home till 3 in the morning sometimes if they race in a late race and have to go back to where the horse trains/stables.
Kind of nuts to have a racetrack like that.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Give poker a shot...just in case.

And if you want...I can recommend a couple of good no-limit holdem books. There is loose money out there...

Please do. I'm very interested in giving no-limit a shot.
I do exceptionally well on-line without any real money. there are so many bad players. Can there be that many stiffs at the table too in a casino?
I have a felling there might be judging by a couple of horseplayers I know who bet poker. They're not exactly what you call thinkers.

If you want to private message me or put it on here, either way is good.

Thanks Thask,
denny

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Denny

Please do. I'm very interested in giving no-limit a shot.
I do exceptionally well on-line without any real money. there are so many bad players. Can there be that many stiffs at the table too in a casino?
I have a felling there might be judging by a couple of horseplayers I know who bet poker. They're not exactly what you call thinkers.

If you want to private message me or put it on here, either way is good.

Thanks Thask,
denny

I'll send you a private message...to avoid taking this thread off of its intended purpose. The poker books that I will recommend to you will be easy to understand, and will allow you to play and survive the game...while you acquire the added knowledge and experience needed in order to win. You can't beat a gambling game just by reading books; you have to expose yourself to the actual game...for real money. And you need to initially adopt a game plan which will keep your tuition cost as low as possible. That's what these books will teach you...if you will allow them.

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally Posted by Denny

The upcoming feature stakes at Santa Anita has a field of FIVE - for a grade 3.

Can't blame the weather, like they do everywhere else.

The favorite is 3/5 right now, the second choice 2/1.

Where's that Value TonyK?

I don't have any insight into Dave's methodology but I do know he feels this way. He is a good, honest man and I have no reason to doubt him.
I also knows that he believes there can be value in short priced horses.

TonyK

[CincyHorseplayer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Depend upon it, the 5-horse field will be the final nail in horse racing's coffin...as far as the horseplayer is concerned. That "good thing at sub 2-1 odds" will become the 'despised thing at sub 1-1 odds' by the time the horses near the final turn...and we can get such a payoff by engaging in the newly-approved sports-betting gig. We didn't become horseplayers because we were enamored of the $4 win-payoffs...or the $30 trifectas (for $2). I am speaking strictly for myself, of course.

I was just hoping you knew I was full of shit and meant nothing I said! I love ya brother! LOL!

[Denny]

Originally Posted by TonyK@HSH

I don't have any insight into Dave's methodology but I do know he feels this way. He is a good, honest man and I have no reason to doubt him.
I also knows that he believes there can be value in short priced horses.

TonyK

The 2/1 in my example above was bet down to 4/5 late and won.
The 3/5 went up to 8/5 and finished 2nd.

Awfully hard to find any value.

Then we had the Old Hollywood Gold Cup now at SA.

6 horse field with 2 stiffs with no chance finish in the last two spots.

The 4 favorites are in the Super with one of the favorites winning.

Hard to find anything there of value.

We need bigger fields, not trying to find value in 4 or 5 horse fields that doesn't exist.

[Denny]

The reason for starting this thread - "We're In Trouble" - is in my first post to start it. This is my perspective of where we are today - as a lifelong player and fan and what I'm afraid of.

Recently another reason for horseplayers to be concerned has come to light and starting to gain attention, with circumstances surrounding who's going to run in the Belmont Stakes this coming Saturday.

Not only do we need to be concerned with short fields due to "super trainers" controlling too many horses and not wanting to run them against each other, now we also have to be concerned with "Super Owners" controlling too many interests.

Here's a link for one horse racing writer take on this potential problem for the game, Tom Jicha of horseraceinsider.com.

I pretty much see it the same way.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Ante...not-the-sport/

[Denny]

No comments?

---

Thinking on it a little further, I suppose there could be a good side to the "super owners" - it could create RIVALRIES among the the big outfits.

Rivalries are usually a good thing for most sports. They create an extra level of interest and can lead to increased competition.

What do you think?

[cj]

It isn't great, but not surprising. As foal crops shrink, the little guy is going to be more likely to be squeezed out. Not all that different from trainers.

[Tom]

We didn't become horseplayers because we were enamored of the $4 win-payoffs...or the $30 trifectas (for $2). I am speaking strictly for myself, of course.

My very first bet - also my very first winner - was Morganfield, $28.80.
That win has carried my interest for over 50 years.

Had Morganfield paid $4.40, I doubt I would have made it past the hot dog before I left the track to go play baseball. As prices go lower and lower, the lotto looks better and better.

[Denny]

Another Wednesday without racing in NY.

Only the biggest week of the year at Belmont.

Belmont Stakes Festival???

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Tom

My very first bet - also my very first winner - was Morganfield, $28.80.
That win has carried my interest for over 50 years.

Had Morganfield paid $4.40, I doubt I would have made it past the hot dog before I left the track to go play baseball. As prices go lower and lower, the lotto looks better and better.

Same here. Started to go to Aqueduct with my Dad as a teenager, and would have never become a fan if all we had was 4, 5, and 6 horse fields witha bunch of favorites winning all the time.

(Can't remember my first winner, but, my dad liked longshots. So it probably was.)

[Ocala Mike]

My very first winner was a Fred Hooper horse called GYRO (late 50's). He paid $15.00 with Eric Guerin aboard, and I've been hooked for 60 years.