Gun Control poll

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Did you note the velocity section? It is nonsense.

The .22 Hornet is not typically used for youth shooting sports or target shooting, the .22 LR (Long Rifle) is. And it is a much smaller and less powerful cartridge than the Hornet.

So the velocity section is nonsense because the writer said the .22 Hornet is typically used for sports shooting, which you disagree with?

You said "what difference does it make how fast a bullet travels?"

The article details how it does make a difference, and there are 1000 more articles just like it. Not sure what there is to argue about.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

So the velocity section is nonsense because the writer said the .22 Hornet is typically used for sports shooting, which you disagree with?

You said "what difference does it make how fast a bullet travels?"

The article details how it does make a difference, and there are 1000 more articles just like it. Not sure what there is to argue about.

It's nonsense because it's drawing false comparisons without a shred of detail to any of it. At close range...

High velocity small bullet= Bad

Slow big bullet (9mm/.38/.40) = Good

It should be noted that the big slow bullet was used in the school shooting that was most lethal at VA Tech.

[JustRalph]

Good stuff.....btw ballistics aside.....the winner of any shootout is the guy who puts rounds on target first......and if not first....in the most lethal spot. Velocity don’t mean shit if you can’t put it on target or put it in the right place.

A decent trained officer should be able to take out a teenager.......in 90% of situations.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Good stuff.....btw ballistics aside.....the winner of any shootout is the guy who puts rounds on target first......and if not first....in the most lethal spot. Velocity don’t mean shit if you can’t put it on target or put it in the right place.

A decent trained officer should be able to take out a teenager.......in 90% of situations.

Exactly...

Any Officer I've spoke with and ANY competitive shooter I know will say they select the most comfortable gun in the caliber they can shoot the most reliably.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

So the velocity section is nonsense because the writer said the .22 Hornet is typically used for sports shooting, which you disagree with?

You said "what difference does it make how fast a bullet travels?"

Perhaps I could have gone into more detail. The article shows that velocity makes a big difference in the foot-pounds of force for roughly similar sized bullets (.223 vs. .22 Hornet) delivered at 500 yards. With similarly sized bullets, the difference is because of velocity, and the loss of velocity over a large distance.

The typical school hallway is a bit shorter than 500 yards. At the close ranges involved, velocity makes little difference because we are no longer talking about similarly sized bullets. As ET said, it all comes down to mass and velocity. A typical .223 bullet weighs around 55 grains. An average 9mm bullet weighs maybe 124 grains. An increasingly popular hand gun caliber, especially for open carry, is the .40 S&W, with a bullet weight of 180 grains. With much greater difference in the mass of bullets and much smaller distances, the effect of velocity is greatly lessened.

At indoor distances, AR-15 vs. hand gun, the first guy to get hit probably loses. And as ET also said, there are problems with penetration with the .223. If you get hit in a non-vital place with a .223 and it goes through you, you are likely still in action for a while. If you get hit in a non-vital place with a heavy slug like a .40 S&W, you can get knocked down by the shear force of impact.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

...

To take Clockers point to extremes let's look at the 9mm, the most common handgun round, and the .45ACP, the practical king of the handgun world. At point blank range:

9mm - 1100FPS, 124 Grain Bullet, with 500ish lb/ft.

.45ACP - 850FPS, 230 Grain Bullet, 500ish lb/ft.

They look similar but any ballistics test will show you the damage caused by the .45 is massively more catastrophic due simply to size despite the lower velocity. There is saying when talking about them;

"With a 9mm you just need one critical hit. With a .45 ANY hit is a critical hit."

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

They look similar but any ballistics test will show you the damage caused by the .45 is massively more catastrophic due simply to size despite the lower velocity.

AKA blunt force trauma with simultaneous penetrating trauma. Something that doesn't happen with small caliber, high velocity rounds.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Since we're talking about projectiles here, a question for you:

At 100 yards, would you rather be shot in the arm or leg with a standard AR-15, or an 1861 Springfield (or 1853 Enfield) as used by both sides in the Civil War? [I suppose both weapons could be considered the "assault" rifles of their day.]

(Hint: in 1866 the State of Mississippi allocated one-half of its budget for the purchase of artificial limbs for its returning veterans.)

Not that the physics formulas in your article are incorrect, just sensationalized for effect.

I will pick the AR-15, without cheating and looking it up I would guess the Springfield is around .50 cal which would leave a 5 times larger entrance wound, no thanks.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by davew

What? MSNBC and CNN always seem to have bulls-eye accuracy with their 'facts'.

That's not a bull's eye - its ther ARSE!
Where they pull most of their stories out of.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Declaration of Independence

One cannot fulfill his duty to throw off such government without sufficient arms. If the government has guns the populace need to posses guns.

Funny how the DOI connects so well with the 2nd amendment.
This is why I laugh at the idea that no one NEEDS an assault rifle.

[azeri98]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Put armed guards in the school.

There was an armed guard, he put his tail between his legs and did nothing

[Tom]

Do a better job of vetting them.
Probably a union guard.

"Hey, I'm break!"

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by azeri98

There was an armed guard, he put his tail between his legs and did nothing

You're right.

And I guess since we can't count on laws and the state to protect might as well do it ourselves.

[RunForTheRoses]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=_MsL_UYypM8

Better the robber than the store clerks.

[jimmyb]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

21 to buy a gun?

The military trains 17 year olds to use many varieties of weapons.