Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


View Poll Results: Mega Barn "Super" Trainers are............... (You can choose more than one answer)
Good for the game 13 10.00%
Bad for the game 81 62.31%
Have "Super Vets" and "Super" vet bills 47 36.15%
Just work harder than everyone else 11 8.46%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 130. This poll is closed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 09-18-2018, 03:01 PM   #166
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-18-2018, 03:37 PM   #167
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
what does one have to do with the other?
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-18-2018, 04:01 PM   #168
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
what does one have to do with the other?

Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-18-2018, 06:44 PM   #169
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Oh, you had an had a supposition, I thought it was rooted in some kind of fact.

carry on.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-12-2020, 12:31 PM   #170
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Another thread that is fun to go back and re-read.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-12-2020, 12:40 PM   #171
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
This race was everything that is wrong with racing in 2018. It is a shame. We should be able to celebrate a 3yo romping to victory over a solid field. Instead we are left to wonder about a trainer who seemingly can't lose while his horses show newfound speed and stamina and huge bets changing the odds at the last minute.
Probably the best post I've ever made
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-12-2020, 06:53 PM   #172
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
There once was a trainer named Servis,
Whose horses made bettors nervous.
He swore they were "streaks"
And they all passed their "leaks."
But he does the game a dis-service.
And this may be my best ever!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-12-2020, 06:59 PM   #173
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
So what do we do with Fig Jelly in the 6th at Belmont. Goes to Servis from Wayne Rice who was at 0% when Fig Jelly was claimed from him.
Look up Fig Jelly in Equibase - in his last 10 or so races - two MAJOR EB speed ratings out of nowhere, recently. (108 and 116)
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-12-2020, 10:53 PM   #174
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
And this may be my best ever!
Fabulous, was laughing at it yet again this morning.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 11:31 AM   #175
the little guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Look up Fig Jelly in Equibase - in his last 10 or so races - two MAJOR EB speed ratings out of nowhere, recently. (108 and 116)
That was one of the problems with him, the jump ups sometimes that you couldn't really predict. It's one thing to know his numbers off the claim, but all too often the pps didn't really matter with him. I Tweeted ( I believe it was the Spring/Summer of 2018 ) that past performances were basically useless for handicapping Jason Servis. I took some heat for it, but it had become painfully obvious that there were frequent random big performances from his runners.
the little guy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 02:23 PM   #176
Track Phantom
Registered User
 
Track Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
That was one of the problems with him, the jump ups sometimes that you couldn't really predict. It's one thing to know his numbers off the claim, but all too often the pps didn't really matter with him. I Tweeted ( I believe it was the Spring/Summer of 2018 ) that past performances were basically useless for handicapping Jason Servis. I took some heat for it, but it had become painfully obvious that there were frequent random big performances from his runners.
TLG: Do you predict a drop in win% by some other high percentage guys across the country based on the events of this week? Obviously, these trainers aren't the only ones in the country doing this very thing. I'd think other trainers who are doing this have to be concerned and change their behavior, even if in the short term. Do you believe that will happen and, if so, doesn't that give us horseplayers a window of opportunity to exploit that at the windows?
__________________
www.trackphantom.com
full card analysis
Track Phantom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 02:43 PM   #177
the little guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom View Post
TLG: Do you predict a drop in win% by some other high percentage guys across the country based on the events of this week? Obviously, these trainers aren't the only ones in the country doing this very thing. I'd think other trainers who are doing this have to be concerned and change their behavior, even if in the short term. Do you believe that will happen and, if so, doesn't that give us horseplayers a window of opportunity to exploit that at the windows?
I think people often focus on just win percentage ( for instance, Chad Brown has a high win percentage, and while I realize the irresponsible lunatics like to call him a cheater, given he pretty much never has explosions out of the blue, or great numbers off trainer switches, it doesn't make sense to the rational thinkers among us ) too much. It's more about explosions, big improvements off claim, and somewhat erratic form. It's hard to know, and I am not going to name names here who I suspect, but I will keep an eye on how their horses run, and whether they run at all. Like a lot of people, I wonder if there are more to come, just as like them I have no inside information.

I hope this is the start of cleaning the game up and getting rid of the people that are effectively ruining this game. Only time will tell, but I think it's fair to say it's a good start. I don't play much where Navarro races, but Jason Servis's act has been infuriating me for a LONG time. It would be nice to be able to handicap with at least a minimum of suspicion.
the little guy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 02:49 PM   #178
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
It's worth noting that the "cheating" problem likely goes beyond simply trainers who are engineering ridiculous form reversals.

In every other sport that has had a PED problem, the effect of PED use was to force basically all the major players to use them. For instance, in track and field, Ben Johnson ran 9.79 in the Olympic Games using PED's (at the time, a ridiculously good performance), but his competitor Carl Lewis, who had a much more rational and explicable career, was also a doper. In cycling, Lance Armstrong doped his way to 6 Tours de France, but the cyclists behind him were also using EPO. In baseball, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire set home run records on steroids, but many 25 home run guys were doping too.

If horse racing seriously addressed its drug problems, you will find that a lot of the people who aren't engineering dramatic form reversals are also dopers. It's inevitable. There are unlikely to be any "good guys". There certainly weren't in other sports.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 03:20 PM   #179
Track Phantom
Registered User
 
Track Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
I think people often focus on just win percentage ( for instance, Chad Brown has a high win percentage, and while I realize the irresponsible lunatics like to call him a cheater, given he pretty much never has explosions out of the blue, or great numbers off trainer switches, it doesn't make sense to the rational thinkers among us ) too much. It's more about explosions, big improvements off claim, and somewhat erratic form. It's hard to know, and I am not going to name names here who I suspect, but I will keep an eye on how their horses run, and whether they run at all. Like a lot of people, I wonder if there are more to come, just as like them I have no inside information.

I hope this is the start of cleaning the game up and getting rid of the people that are effectively ruining this game. Only time will tell, but I think it's fair to say it's a good start. I don't play much where Navarro races, but Jason Servis's act has been infuriating me for a LONG time. It would be nice to be able to handicap with at least a minimum of suspicion.
Thanks TLG. I feel the same way about everything you wrote. The Servis phenomenon was so blatant and brazen that he hardly could've drawn more attention if he'd lit himself on fire. I agree that I hope this is the start of a new era for US-based horse racing.

Some unprecedented times in and out of the horse racing world, that is for sure.
__________________
www.trackphantom.com
full card analysis
Track Phantom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 03-13-2020, 03:27 PM   #180
Robert Fischer
clean money
 
Robert Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
There are unlikely to be any "good guys". There certainly weren't in other sports.
If an aging "Kareem" played today, he'd have 10lbs more muscle, and hair...



At least there are some good guys in the game. “It is time for the horse-racing industry to unite in support of a national anti-doping regulatory system." - Bob Baffert


Just about time for me to withdraw my little ADW funds, and take a 'hiatus'.

It's possible that the sport will take a break after Saturday's cards, while the Nation battles Covid-19.

I also don't know whether I can trust the doping trainers to continue to dope, or whether they'll run 'flat' horses, or whether they'll double-down...

It's a guessing game right now.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.

Last edited by Robert Fischer; 03-13-2020 at 03:29 PM.
Robert Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.