New Age Triple Crown?

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Horses nowadays simply can't do it.

Sure, maybe I'm short-sighted in that American Pharoah and Justify recently did the deed.

But today's horses simply struggle to run once a month much less 3 times in 5 weeks.

I say we have a new age Triple Crown. No races or scheduling have to change.

Kentucky Derby
Belmont Stakes
Travers

Has any horse won those 3?

[thaskalos]

I thought the mystique of the Triple Crown was in its rarity. What's the point of making it more easily attainable?

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I thought the mystique of the Triple Crown was in its rarity. What's the point of making it more easily attainable?

How is a Derby, Belmont, Travers more attainable?

I don't think any horse has ever won all 3 before. I'm sure I'll be corrected, but it isn't easy.

[sovereign]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

How is a Derby, Belmont, Travers more attainable?

I don't think any horse has ever won all 3 before. I'm sure I'll be corrected, but it isn't easy.

Whirlaway (TC) was the only one and has not been repeated since. They just don't build 'em like they used to.

[Redboard]

There's always been talk of pushing the Preakness back to the first Saturday in June but then you'd have to push the Belmont back which would screw up the Haskell and a track that really needs it.

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by sovereign

Whirlaway (TC) was the only one and has not been repeated since. They just don't build 'em like they used to.

In 2001, Point Given won the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers. (5th in Kentucky Derby). But this was Baffert too, so...... In my mind American Pharoah and Justfy's accomplishments have become tainted. I don't know how everyone else feels about this.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

Horses nowadays simply can't do it.

Sure, maybe I'm short-sighted in that American Pharoah and Justify recently did the deed.

But today's horses simply struggle to run once a month much less 3 times in 5 weeks.

I say we have a new age Triple Crown. No races or scheduling have to change.

Kentucky Derby
Belmont Stakes
Travers

Has any horse won those 3?

Horses can't do it, except for the two that just did it....

[Jayman]

Instead of an old Triple Crown and a new Triple Crown, how about the Grand Slam of American Horse Racing.

Kentucky Derby
Belmont Stakes
Haskell
Travers

The historic timings and the original Triple Crown stays intact for the traditionalists, but a new series can be promoted that has better spacing. NYRA still gets the final leg in their domain, and there is even wiggle room to adjust the timing of the last 2 races if needed. The spacing works out for modern trainers better than the Triple Crown. Being 4 G1 races, it will still be viewed as a difficult and historic feat. There can also be a points system with a money reward at the end of the series to incentive horses running in case a horse loses or misses one of the races.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Jayman

There can also be a points system with a money reward at the end of the series to incentive horses running in case a horse loses or misses one of the races.

That's what they had before and that's all they have to bring back to "fix" whatever people think is wrong with the current TC setup.

In fact, if they should add a bonus system for all sorts of 3 race series--especially for older horse--to keep horses running more frequently & hopefully over more than 1 or 2 campaigns.

For example:

Met Mile-Brooklyn-Suburban
Whitney-Woodward-JCGC
Woodford Reserve-Dixie-Manhattan
Big Cap-Hollywood Gold Cup-Pac Classic

[five-eighths]

Originally Posted by Redboard

There's always been talk of pushing the Preakness back to the first Saturday in June but then you'd have to push the Belmont back which would screw up the Haskell and a track that really needs it.

Who’s running in both the Belmont and Haskell? They’re two different distances, and usually when a horse runs the Belmont they don’t run until the Travers.

[f2tornado]

From a wagering perspective, I don't want a Triple Crown, Grand Slam or whatever too often. The best money is made when you beat one of those dominant horses. That said, it's fun to watch a truly dominant horse once in a while but the financial incentive of the shed makes a horse like Cigar a relic from a bygone era, sans the rare elite gelding like Shared Belief who's career was tragically cut short.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

From a wagering perspective, I don't want a Triple Crown, Grand Slam or whatever too often. The best money is made when you beat one of those dominant horses. That said, it's fun to watch a truly dominant horse once in a while but the financial incentive of the shed makes a horse like Cigar a relic from a bygone era, sans the rare elite gelding like Shared Belief who's career was tragically cut short.

Shared Belief was a really cool horse. His 4YO season was just starting and he could have been dominant. (Heck, he was dominant).

10 for 12 lifetime, and losses were when he broke down and the horrific trip in the BC Classic. One of those that you can definitely look back and say "what could have been".

Would have been amazing seeing him line up against American Pharoah in the 2015 BC Classic. The crap start and trip from the year before against a Triple Crown legend. We were cheated.

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by five-eighths

Who’s running in both the Belmont and Haskell? They’re two different distances, and usually when a horse runs the Belmont they don’t run until the Travers.

I'm usually in Saratoga Springs when the Haskel is run. But I found three old PPs on my computer.

Exaggerator in 2016. Irish war Cry in 2017 (came in 2nd in Belmont). American Pharoh in 2015 (won Belmont, as you probably know).

:-)

[theotherside]

Change nothing,It's not meant to be easy.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I thought the mystique of the Triple Crown was in its rarity. What's the point of making it more easily attainable?

Some people think it's going to make it harder because with better spacing, the Preakness will draw more of the Derby horses and make the Preakness tougher.

I think there's a flipside argument. If a lot more Derby horses go into the Preakness, the very good Derby winners that win the Preakness anyway will be fresher going into the Belmont and be less likely to face fresh horses in the Belmont. Some of the past Derby/Preakness winners may have won the Triple Crown if they had more time to recover and didn't face fresher horses.

I don't know how to net out those two things.