New Age Triple Crown?

[burnsy]

https://www.americasbestracing.net/t...ams-six-cities

I don’t know if this idea will work but it’s the right thinking . People are acting like the Triple Crown is fine because two horse’s recently did it . The thing is one of them raced 6 times and was never seen again . What does this accomplish for racing and a fan base ? Not very much IMO. And it’s obvious most of these horses can’t make the 5 weeks , they don’t even want to try unless there’s a Triple Crown on the line . Mage is now waiting for the Travers, maybe he’ll run in the Jim Dandy for a prep. Who knows . He s tired and it showed Saturday. Maybe with a little better better organization they can pump “fan blood” in to this game . Horse racing is at the point where most people don’t care . The biggest headlines are about trouble not a race or a horse . And these horses can’t even run twice a month in the summer half the time . They gotta do something.

[Geno_Gino]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Change nothing,It's not meant to be easy.

I agree.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I don't know how to net out those two things.

The Triple Crown is tough now because of the spacing.

It would be a different kind of tough if they changed the spacing.

Neither necessarily (though possibly) more or less tough - likely just different.

[sovereign]

Originally Posted by theotherside

Change nothing,It's not meant to be easy.

YES! It's the hard that makes it great.

[sovereign]

Originally Posted by burnsy

https://www.americasbestracing.net/t...ams-six-cities

I don’t know if this idea will work but it’s the right thinking . People are acting like the Triple Crown is fine because two horse’s recently did it . The thing is one of them raced 6 times and was never seen again . What does this accomplish for racing and a fan base ? Not very much IMO. And it’s obvious most of these horses can’t make the 5 weeks , they don’t even want to try unless there’s a Triple Crown on the line . Mage is now waiting for the Travers, maybe he’ll run in the Jim Dandy for a prep. Who knows . He s tired and it showed Saturday. Maybe with a little better better organization they can pump “fan blood” in to this game . Horse racing is at the point where most people don’t care . The biggest headlines are about trouble not a race or a horse . And these horses can’t even run twice a month in the summer half the time . They gotta do something.

The spacing has been fine for years. It's the breed has weakened. But maybe in time the no-Lasix will have a positive effect for the following generations.

[Parkview_Pirate]

A change is needed, but not with the classic races. The training of the horses needs to be changed.

For starters, back to hay, oats and water.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

A change is needed, but not with the classic races. The training of the horses needs to be changed.

Spot on.

[classhandicapper]

IMO, horses wear down if they run too often. Even back in the 70s many top horses were given mid campaign freshers. Horses that that were at the top of the division early in the year would sometimes wear down and go off form by the time the big fall races came around if they weren't given a break.

I think the Breeder's Cup is part of what changed the thinking.

If you have that kind of horse, the connections don't want to have a stale horse going into those important races. They want to peak for those races. So they are probably overcompensating for the risk of going off form and/or injury with the extra spacing.

Years back I read a study on workouts/races. It provided some statistical evidence that how often and hard the horse works between races also matters.
So it's kind of strange to see trainers space a horse's races and but work them so hard in between.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Great comments all.

I think we are all big fans of the current Triple Crown. Not many have ever done it, and it took nearly 40 years before American Pharoah busted through.

Maybe we should just keep as is, and only special select horses are allowed.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

Maybe we should just keep as is, and only special select horses are allowed.

IMO, the only changes needed are to do away with the Derby points system & to reinstitute the Triple Crown Challenge bonus ($1 million top points earner or $5 million for TC winner).

Points system precludes horses starting that are progressing into the Derby; instead you have a bunch of Pletcher, Baffert, Asmussen & Cox horses that may have peaked in the preps & then don't run back in the Preakness and/or Belmont because they are either hurt or exposed.

Upstream, some sort of approach to toning down the super trainer trend might also make the races more competitive with full fields throughout the series.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

IMO, the only changes needed are to do away with the Derby points system & to reinstitute the Triple Crown Challenge bonus ($1 million top points earner or $5 million for TC winner).

Points system precludes horses starting that are progressing into the Derby; instead you have a bunch of Pletcher, Baffert, Asmussen & Cox horses that may have peaked in the preps & then don't run back in the Preakness and/or Belmont because they are either hurt or exposed.

Upstream, some sort of approach to toning down the super trainer trend might also make the races more competitive with full fields throughout the series.

A 2 horse max per trainer/owner?

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

A 2 horse max per trainer/owner?

That might send the message but even the prep races are watered down because of it, too. Really it's an industry problem that goes beyond the Derby.

Ironically, Cox had Instant Coffee shut out of the Derby because of the points system & having too many horses to juggle around, although that horse hasn't worked in over a month so maybe he didn't run him enough for a reason...

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

IMO, the only changes needed are to do away with the Derby points system & to reinstitute the Triple Crown Challenge bonus ($1 million top points earner or $5 million for TC winner).

Chuck Simon (the former trainer and "Going In Circles" podcast host) has suggested knocking all the 3yo preps to Grade 2 (or lower) for two reasons:

a) the preps are just that, preps - they are not the "target" - Grade 1s should be the races that draw the WHOLE division - not just regional chunks of it.

b) if you want that stallion-making 3yo Grade 1 for your 3yo (and didn't get it at 2), you have to get it in one of the TC races, Haskell, Travers, or PA Derby (or face older).

[mostpost]

A few suggestions.
Run the Kentucky Derby on the first Saturday in May, as always.
Run the Preakness three weeks later and the Belmont three weeks after that.
Reduce the number of Kentucky Derby starters to 14 with 6 also eligibles.

Keep the current points system, but stipulate that no horse shall run inthe Derby that hasn’t started at least three times as a three year old in a graded stakes race, regardless of points.

Establish incentives for running in all three triple crown races, based on finish position.

[Snow Chief]

I think recent spat of "change the Triple Crown" hysteria is based on a couple of bad years for the Preakness, which were completely out of anyone's control. Maximum Security's DQ and Country House getting hurt, Covid, Medina Spirit positive, and Rich Strike (who wasn't going to win the Preakness with 100 weeks of rest). That's not a great 5 year sample on which to base any major changes.

Also, I feel like 20 year's ago, all the talk was about how the Belmont was obsolete and on the verge of becoming a Grade II. You had a big Baffert and Asmussen era, where he was was more keen on running back in 2 weeks. Recently, we have Pletcher and Cox with a ton of the good 3 yos and their style leans toward skipping the Preakness for 5 week spacing (and Pletcher gets to come home). The dominant trainers could be totally different in 5 years with different styles. Also, I think the Belmont now, TC on the line or not, is the best of the 3.

The problem with more spacing, like the Bill Finley plan, is that it will kill the rest ofthe racing calendar. The Haskell and Jim Dandy will be finished and who knows what other races will be subsumed akin to what the Breeders' Cup did to the fall racing calendar in the 1980's-90's (and arguably is doing to the summer now!). I think it is improtant for the big horses to appear at other tracks at their big events to keep alive whatever interest in the sport there is left around the country.

Finally, where I do feel for Pimlico, is the undercard on Preakness/BES Day. With the paltry purses, turining around in two weeks from CD's stakes bonanza is not attractive. I am actually surprised that Pim's races have stayed as strong as they are.