Religion II

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, kidding, Humpty. I did say a line in one of my programs might read... I didn't say anything about code.

A line in a program usually refers to a line of code. You could have said readout of the program, bunky.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by bnunky

Humpty, Chance has no causal power -- neither does Time! I know these two "little" facts are sacrilegious and blasphemous to the high priests of scientism

Gotta be the stupidest thing you have said. NO ONE EVER SAID CHANCE OR TIME HAVE CAUSAL POWER. Tell us where you think this was said. Quote it.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

282,000+ views on this thread. Stunning.

The only thing that is recent and comes close is the Hillary thread. I think everyone is scared to death the Clintons or the Obamas will never disappear.

Boxcar's nonsense, unfortunately will neither

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Gotta be the stupidest thing you have said. NO ONE EVER SAID CHANCE OR TIME HAVE CAUSAL POWER. Tell us where you think this was said. Quote it.

Then what in the world do you mean by the CAUSAL arrow of time?

Oh wait...I know...the arrow was caused, right?

And if chance has no causal power, why did you bring up the topic of "chance" into this discussion? Just to throw us another non sequitur curve ball?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by hcap

A line in a program usually refers to a line of code. You could have said readout of the program, bunky.

I have to side with boxcar on this one. A line in handicapping does not refer to a line of code even if said line was generated by a computer program.

That's all I have to say about that.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Actor

I have to side with boxcar on this one. A line in handicapping does not refer to a line of code even if said line was generated by a computer program.

That's all I have to say about that.

Originally Posted by boxcar

pgl -a ssg b / bw1 / scw2 sw +fpd srw / y- pt3 j1 low sow,

I guess the forward slash 's he used to separate characters gave me that impression. A fake attempt to impress us. Why didn't he tell us what for example what these characters.......

" /scw2 sw +fpd srw /" stood for?

The slash is used as a division operator in most programming languages.

Compared to other of his glaring absurdities, I will let it slide.

My bad

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then what in the world do you mean by the CAUSAL arrow of time?

Oh wait...I know...the arrow was caused, right?

And if chance has no causal power, why did you bring up the topic of "chance" into this discussion? Just to throw us another non sequitur curve ball?

I have gone over this many, many times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

The causal arrow of time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_..._arrow_of_time

......The causal arrow of time

A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow.

Originally Posted by boxcar

And if chance has no causal power, why did you bring up the topic of "chance" into this discussion?

I used chance when discussing probability. For instance, can you tell us How OFTEN your angles work? What are the chances of success?

https://learn.problemgambling.ca/pro...-random-chance

Probability is the likelihood or chance that something will happen. Probability is an estimate of the relative average frequency with which an event occurs in repeated independent trials. The relative frequency is always between 0% (the event never occurs) and 100% (the event always occurs).

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I guess the forward slash 's he used to separate characters gave me that impression. A fake attempt to impress us. Why didn't he tell us what for example what these characters.......

" /scw2 sw +fpd srw /" stood for?

The slash is used as a division operator in most programming languages.

Compared to other of his glaring absurdities, I will let it slide.

My bad

The forward slash is used to separate angle categories in the program's output, e.g. performance angles, trainer maneuver angles, workout angles, pinpoint angles, etc.

Goes to show that a "division operator" can have multiple uses.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I have gone over this many, many times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

The causal arrow of time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_..._arrow_of_time

......The causal arrow of time

A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow.
I used chance when discussing probability. For instance, can you tell us How OFTEN your angles work? What are the chances of success?

https://learn.problemgambling.ca/pro...-random-chance

But what do "causal events" that occur IN TIME have to do with a "causal arrow of time", so called?

Permit me to give you another of my great analogies. Let's liken Time to an ocean of water. This is appropriate because we are time-bound creatures, fully "submersed" in Time. We live, move and breathe in Time. There is no way for us to escape from the Time environment.

And so it is with the sea creatures of the sea. They, too, live, move and "breathe" totally submersed in the sea. So, do human divers. Let's say that there's an underwater project being built, with a large team of divers involved in the work. The underwater structure being built is being caused by the diver's work. -- by their activity. The ocean of water has NOTHING to do with causing the work. The water contributes nothing to the actual work, in fact. The work is simply being performed in the ocean.

And so it is with Time. Time is caused. Events are caused in Time. But Time itself never causes events. Moreover, events never occur in the Past or in the Future, only in the Present.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Permit me to give you another of my great analogies. Let's liken Time to an ocean of water. This is appropriate because we are time-bound creatures, fully "submersed" in Time. We live, move and breathe in Time. There is no way for us to escape from the Time environment.

And so it is with the sea creatures of the sea. They, too, live, move and "breathe" totally submersed in the sea. So, do human divers. Let's say that there's an underwater project being built, with a large team of divers involved in the work. The underwater structure being built is being caused by the diver's work. -- by their activity.

I did suggest we not use models or analogies of time. There are many problems with all. Your ocean, suffers from quite a few.Foremost is that "structured" are formed more often without the need for humans. Coral reefs for instance. Great geological FORMATIONS, that the ocean waters erode and shape.

Topography of the Pacific Ocean: The Pacific Ocean has a highly varied topography that consists of oceanic ridges, trenches and long seamount chains that are formed by hotspot volcanoes under the Earth's surface

I have used events and change frequently to describe time. So when we debate the direction of events we are describing the direction of change, or the "arrow" of time. When you blab the future preceeds the present and past, contrary to modern thought you must provide some sort of evidence other than calling science"scientism"

Evidence?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I did suggest we not use models or analogies of time. There are many problems with all. Your ocean, suffers from quite a few.Foremost is that "structured" are formed more often without the need for humans. Coral reefs for instance. Great geological FORMATIONS, that the ocean waters erode and shape.


I have used events and change frequently to describe time. So when we debate the direction of events we are describing the direction of change, or the "arrow" of time. When you blab the future preceeds the present and past, contrary to modern thought you must provide some sort of evidence other than calling science"scientism"

Evidence?

My ocean analogy suffers from no weaknesses since man occupies the oceans too! And the analogy was especially good because men work under and in the seas. What about submarines as they navigate through the depths of the oceans? Does the sea water cause these sleek, large underwater vessels to propel through the water?

And events and change do NOT describe time, per se. (Although they might describe historical or cultural periods of time.) They are separate from time. Their only relation to time is that because those events and changes are also SUBMERGED in Time, they take place, therefore, in Time.

And I have provided plenty of evidence and arguments that the Future precedes the Present. The strongest argument yet, being the cosmological argument! All ends of Days are preceded by the beginnings of Days. All days begin in the East and end in the opposite direction of the West. All newborn days are short-lived and flow through the Present to the graveyard of the Past to meet their end. History (dead, used time) is stored in the vault of the Past -- and only in the Past.

Your entire loony argument is based up some absurd idea that the Past CAUSES Future events. Events that have taken place in the Past can certainly influence future actions -- but "influence" and "cause" are NOT synonymous terms. But because the Future is beyond our complete, absolute, perfect control, many events that actually will occur in the Future -- that will come to past -- will be totally unexpected or at very unwelcomed.

Take for example, the whole AI genie that is out of the bottle (see the Musk vid I posted in another thread) -- not only is it out of the bottle but it is virtually unregulated. AI in the hands of evil men can potentially be devastating to this world. Put powerful amoral AI machines or technology into the hands of evil men, and you have a recipe for disaster. What happens, for example, when some AI gets to "thinking" that killing is perfectly legit and beneficial in "x, y, z" situations? When happens when AI says,

"Hey, I know YOU created me, but I'm your master"?

What happens when AI says, "You are the ants on my anthill on my plot ground, and because you're in my way impeding progress I must destroy you -- and there's personal to his. I harbor no hate or animosity toward you. It's just the logical thing to do"?

Then what would our future look like?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

My ocean analogy suffers from no weaknesses since man occupies the oceans too! And the analogy was especially good because men work under and in the seas. What about submarines as they navigate through the depths of the oceans? Does the sea water cause these sleek, large underwater vessels to propel through the water?

You never answered my objection about non human causes. Or do you invoke god as the cause of all things no matter what? Including random non human accidental structures throughout nature like underwater chasms some dwarfing the Grand Canyon?

And events and change do NOT describe time, per se. (Although they might describe historical or cultural periods of time.) They are separate from time.

Of course they do. Events are not separate from time, if they were there could be no change. That is why when we try to describe time we must incorporate movement.

And I have provided plenty of evidence and arguments that the Future precedes the Present. The strongest argument yet, being the cosmological argument! All ends of Days are preceded by the beginnings of Days. All days begin in the East and end in the opposite direction of the West. All newborn days are short-lived and flow through the Present to the graveyard of the Past to meet their end. History (dead, used time) is stored in the vault of the Past -- and only in the Past.

I have told you direction in 3 spatial dimensions have no bearing on time

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You never answered my objection about non human causes. Or do you invoke god as the cause of all things no matter what? Including random non human accidental structures throughout nature like underwater chasms some dwarfing the Grand Canyon?
Of course they do. Events are not separate from time, if they were there could be no change. That is why when we try to describe time we must incorporate movement.
I have told you direction in 3 spatial dimensions have no bearing on time

Buy a sundial. Then spend an entire day tracking the birth of a new day as it flows to you from the East through the Present and it makes its way to its demise in the West. And then tell me that 3 spatial dimensions have no bearing on Time!

And by the way...all that "movement" occurs through three-dimensional Space by 3 dimensional physical matter. Time proceeds BY Motion through Space.

Non-human causes are like human causes in that both occur IN Time -- NOT BY Time. Time causes nothing! Causes occur IN time.

[hcap]

Non-human causes are like human causes in that both occur IN Time -- NOT BY Time. Time causes nothing! Causes occur IN time.

No one ever said time causes anything !!!.

You told us humans build underwear structures in your ocean analogy of time. Never answered if you invoke god to explain random structures in your watery nonsense.


Whatever. You are not understanding even your own theories when questioned.

Evidently all made up as you go along.

Busy watching the news. Turns out Sean Hannity, Trumps favorite advisor is also a client of Trump's favorite non-lawyer Michael Cohen

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

No one ever said time causes anything !!!.

You told us humans build underwear structures in your ocean analogy of time. Never answered if you invoke god to explain random structures in your watery nonsense.


Whatever. You are not understanding even your own theories when questioned.

Evidently all made up as you go along.

Busy watching the news. Turns out Sean Hannity, Trumps favorite advisor is also a client of Trump's favorite non-lawyer Michael Cohen

Yeah...no one ever said it except when you used the phrase repeatedly "the causal arrow of time".

The world is filled with natural causes -- in fact, the world is filled with Aristotle's four causes. So what? What does this have to do with Time?