Religious

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Is not the earth filled with his glory? I do believe the physical cross was on the earth, so it was surrounded by the glory of God who fills the earth with His glory.



The above answer does not satisfy the request for Scriptural teaching. So by your above answer, are you saying every death spoken about in the Gospel is equated to crucifixion? They would have to be if death and crucifixion are treated as a synonymous.

Again, per Scripture we proclaim his death through eating the bread and drinking the cup, until he comes again 1 Cor. 11:26. Scripture, to my knowledge, does not state we proclaim his death, when we proclaim Christ crucified.

Since I respect and I believe Scripture, I want to know if I am wrong by stating there is no similar Scriptural verse to 1 Cor. 11:26 about the crucifix proclaiming Christ's death. If Scripture does contain such a verse, please cite me chapter and verse.

Of course, we are proclaiming his coming out party. We are proclaiming the sign of Jonah and the rebuilding of the temple in 3 days, both of which Jesus promised.

Wasn't crucifixion the MEANS of His DEATH? Talk about splitting hairs!

Every time anyone preaches the gospel they preach his death, i.e. Christ crucified, otherwise the resurrection makes no sense.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Is not the earth filled with his glory? I do believe the physical cross was on the earth, so it was surrounded by the glory of God who fills the earth with His glory.

Sure but in a different sense! Did God's glory surround the nightclub murders in Orlando? Did God's glory surround the terrorists' attacks on 9/11? Did God's surround the recent terrorists' attacks in Turkey when 150+ people were killed? Does God's Glory surround child prostitution rings around the world? Has God's glory surrounded all the acts of pedophilia by Catholic priests?

[classhandicapper]

Demonic Possession

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...c-possession/#

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Wasn't crucifixion the MEANS of His DEATH? Talk about splitting hairs!

Every time anyone preaches the gospel they preach his death, i.e. Christ crucified, otherwise the resurrection makes no sense.

In other words, once again you failed to prove your claim, through Scripture. It is only your opinion that the Gospel is about preaching Christ's death. The Gospel is about preaching the glory of Christ and that is in Scripture.

Christ defeated death and the cross was his instrument of victory over death. As Apostle Paul said oh death where is thy sting.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Sure but in a different sense! Did God's glory surround the nightclub murders in Orlando? Did God's glory surround the terrorists' attacks on 9/11? Did God's surround the recent terrorists' attacks in Turkey when 150+ people were killed? Does God's Glory surround child prostitution rings around the world? Has God's glory surrounded all the acts of pedophilia by Catholic priests?

Does Scripture teach God's glory does not exist if sin is committed? Is heaven and earth still filled His glory, now, even though all men are sinners? Does God grace decrease or not exist where there is sin?

Like I said, I respect and believe Scripture and I want to be taught truth. Please cite me chapter and verse which teaches what you asked me about God's glory not surrounding the sinful conduct in the Orlando night club murders.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Never very clearly as I recall. Your explanation had something to do with free will, right?

That was part of it. Just today I received this in my email. It's a very short and somewhat superficial explanation of why God planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden.

http://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm

Keep in mind, by the way, another important fact: Without the knowledge of Evil, no one can know what Good is. How do we know what dark is if we didn't know what light is, etc.? My point is this...the vast majority of people in the world very much enjoy having this kind of moral knowledge. In fact, I've never had anyone complain...save for Christians who long for Christ to return and be free from the presence of evil forever. And there are unbelievers who are so accustomed to having the knowledge of both that they think Heaven will be downright boring without it being tainted with "some" evil.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Does Scripture teach God's glory does not exist if sin is committed? Is heaven and earth still filled His glory, now, even though all men are sinners? Does God grace decrease or not exist where there is sin?

Like I said, I respect and believe Scripture and I want to be taught truth. Please cite me chapter and verse which teaches what you asked me about God's glory not surrounding the sinful conduct in the Orlando night club murders.

God's glory fills the earth in terms of the beauty and the majesty of his creation. His glory, however, does not surround sin!

You might as well postulate that since God is omnipresent this must mean that His Spirit is in all people in a quantitative sense. Everyone must be indwelt with the Spirit and be born again, right?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

In other words, once again you failed to prove your claim, through Scripture. It is only your opinion that the Gospel is about preaching Christ's death. The Gospel is about preaching the glory of Christ and that is in Scripture.

Christ defeated death and the cross was his instrument of victory over death. As Apostle Paul said oh death where is thy sting.

The cross was an instrument of death and a curse! You're out of your mind. I'm thinking you might even be demon-possessed! Death has no sting because of the power of God not because of the cross or because we all wind up in the grave.

The gospel is preaching the Person and Work of Christ (i.e. who Christ is and his perfect life, death, burial and resurrection) and why sinner's need his salvation.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I never made such a claim because I can't prove a negative. Why do you think I've been asking you a gazillion times to prove this mythical catholic doctrine of a third priesthood, which YOU claim exists!?

More straw-men constructed by you to save face. I never said you made the statement, you claim in your above quote. I agree you never stated you actually claimed you can prove a negative.

I said the following,Then why did you make the claim you did? The claim you made, to which I referred, is Hebrews abolishes all third level (your term) priesthoods.

In other words, I was saying if you are dense enough to make a claim, which has to be proven only through proving a negative, it is your problem and still your burden and not mine. You were so dense you did not understand from the beginning that your claim rested on proving a negative.

Also, the claims I made about the priesthood, are that the Melchizedek priesthood exists, it is an ancient priesthood, this priesthood is sanctified in Hebrews, and it is the priesthood of sacrificial offering bread (flour) and wine to God. My claim is proven.

Can you prove any of the above things I claimed are not in Scripture? If not I carried my burden.

Are you interested in reverting back to the faith of your original baptism? Are you considering voluntarily submitting yourself to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church? If not why are you interested in what Catholicism teaches?

In fact, you proclaimed you know what Catholicism teaches due to your Catholic education. Thus, you should already know the Scriptural support for priests.

Additionally, in case you forgot what you were taught in your Catholic education, I directed you to resources to refresh your memory. I proved my claims, since I proved my claims, I am moving on from the priesthood discussion.

Also, my salvation is the most important subject. You claim you are here, because you love us and want us to be saved. Is not your overarching concern our salvation?

So since I want to be secure in my salvation and I ask. Do I need to love God to be saved?

Or did you lie, again. to all of us about your overarching purpose. Is your purpose to mock peoples beliefs and degrade other Christian denominations beliefs?

Which is it, concern for our salvation, out of love for us or just trying to mock everyone's spiritual beliefs and degrade all other Christian denominations.

Prove to all of us you really love us, as you claim, and want us to be saved by answering an important simple question about salvation. Do I or anyone else who desires to be saved, need to love God?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The cross was an instrument of death and a curse! You're out of your mind. I'm thinking you might even be demon-possessed! Death has no sting because of the power of God not because of the cross or because we all wind up in the grave.

The gospel is preaching the Person and Work of Christ (i.e. who Christ is and his perfect life, death, burial and resurrection) and why sinner's need his salvation.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Gal 6:14 [emphasis added]

Yes, I am out of mind like Apostle Paul. Do you understand what the Apostle is saying? God forbids that Paul should glory, except the glory in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified.

I don't think St. Paul is demon possessed. Do you think he is?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Gal 6:14 [emphasis added]

Yes, I am out of mind like Apostle Paul. Do you understand what the Apostle is saying? God forbids that Paul should glory, except the glory in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ who was crucified.

I don't think St. Paul is demon possessed. Do you think he is?

Yes, Paul, as any redeemed sinner can glory in the cross of Christ because of the the benefits of salvation God's redeemed reap from Christ's cross. But God's glory does not surround anything that is SINFUL! Why do you think Christ uttered these words on the Cross?

Matt 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, " Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? "that is," My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? "
NASB

If the cross was bathed in God's glory then why didn't Jesus sense this!? What instead he sensed in the depths of his soul was abandonment. He sensed for the first time ever a separation from his glorious Father! But why would the Father abandon Son during his darkest hour -- during the time of his greatest need? Here's why:

2 Cor 5:21
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
NIV

Or as Peter said"...He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross..." (1Pet 2:4).

God whose eyes are too pure to behold sin, gazed away (as it were) at his dying Son on the cross. This is why God's glory never surrounds any sinful acts. And you must remember: Christ was MURDERED by the Jews and Gentiles! There is no glory in murder! And God's glory did not surround his accursed Son on the cross! Because Jesus bore the sins of his people, he was accursed!

[Show Me the Wire]

Death has no sting because of the power of God not because of the cross

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18 [emphasis added]

Notice the pronoun "it" boxcar. The pronoun "it" refers to the preaching of the cross. Is the power of God death? Is the Apostle preaching, as you opine, that the cross is just a symbol of death or is it which we are saved by God's power?

The cross is a stumbling block for you. You claim you are led by the Holy Spirit. Maybe it is a different spirit that leads you?

Let me help you, the empty tomb does not save you. The empty tomb is the proof of the power of God in the cross. The glory you should glory in is the glory in the cross of Jesus, as apostle Paul teaches. And yes the cross is surrounded by the glory of God.

Before you claim I denied there is glory in the cross. I made no such denial. I objected to your habit of constructing straw-men to attack by puttying words in my mouth.

Below is my quote:

Who said the cross is glorious? Not me. I said the cross, upon which Jesus remained affixed to until death through obedience, out of love for the Eternal Father and love of mankind, was surrounded by God's glory.

I asked you who said the cross is glorious? Not me, (I didn't write Scripture). Also, I repeated what I actually posted, as an objection, of what you wanted to attributed to me.

I never denied Apostle Paul's teachings about glory of the cross of Jesus.

[Show Me the Wire]

Yes, Paul, as any redeemed sinner can glory in the cross of Christ because of the the benefits of salvation God's redeemed reap from Christ's cross. But God's glory does not surround anything that is SINFUL! Why do you think Christ uttered these words on the Cross?

Not just any empty cross, but the cross of Christ. Make-up your mind. First you opined there was no glory of God anywhere, because Jesus became sin. Now you say there is glory in the cross. Did Jesus condition of becoming sin all of a sudden change? No. You can't have it both ways. You were either in gross error due to your original claim or gross error now.

What you have proven is you do not posses the Scriptural knowledge you profess. You have proven the age old adage. You cannot give what you do not have.

Now, give me Scriptural proof of your claim that God's glory which fills heaven and earth is not present, during sin. Your opinion does not count.

How about God's grace. What happens to God's grace where there is sin?

How about salvation? Do I have to love God to be saved?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

The operative word in "near death experience" is "near." The operative word in "clinical death" is "clinical."

People who have "near death experiences" are never really dead. Brain function never stopped. Whatever recollections the subject may have are the result of chemical imbalances and malfunctions in the brain.

"Clinical death" is a misleading term. Medically it means the cessation of blood circulation and not true death. The term is an unfortunate hold over from a time when resuscitation from interruption of blood circulation was unknown.

I recommend you read The Soul Fallacy by Julien Musolino.

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Fallacy-...e+soul+fallacy

Sorry I missed your post. So you are saying, I believe, that these people are not really dead and they are having hallucinations. When they are resuscitated they are reporting hallucinations, right?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18 [emphasis added]

Notice the pronoun "it" boxcar. The pronoun "it" refers to the preaching of the cross. Is the power of God death? Is the Apostle preaching, as you opine, that the cross is just a symbol of death or is it which we are saved by God's power?

The cross is a stumbling block for you. You claim you are led by the Holy Spirit. Maybe it is a different spirit that leads you?

Let me help you, the empty tomb does not save you. The empty tomb is the proof of the power of God in the cross. The glory you should glory in is the glory in the cross of Jesus, as apostle Paul teaches. And yes the cross is surrounded by the glory of God.

Before you claim I denied there is glory in the cross. I made no such denial. I objected to your habit of constructing straw-men to attack by puttying words in my mouth.

Below is my quote:



I asked you who said the cross is glorious? Not me, (I didn't write Scripture). Also, I repeated what I actually posted, as an objection, of what you wanted to attributed to me.

I never denied Apostle Paul's teachings about glory of the cross of Jesus.

So is the gospel! It is the power of God unto salvation. Without the cross (the death of the righteous Son on behalf of sinners) there is no salvation! Elementary, Dr. Watson. This is why the Cross is the "power of God" to the redeemed of God!

And this all harkens back to what I said earlier. To preach the gospel, the Death of Christ must also be preached. For without his death on the cross, his resurrection makes no sense. The cross must precede the resurrection as surely as Good Friday precedes Easter Sunday.

But no where in scripture does it teach that God's glory "surrounds the cross". Nowhere is that taught. That's just more Catholic religious drivel.

And while on the topic of drivel -- how are you coming along with your search for scriptural proof of a third priesthood order. I see only two in scripture. We have the order of Melchizedek which is equated to Christ's Office of High Priest. And we see the priesthood of all born again believers. Where o' where o' where is the priesthood of the black robes?