Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 08-04-2018, 03:41 PM   #1
Cholly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
Dirt allowance field size

N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries

The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.

I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
Cholly is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-04-2018, 06:30 PM   #2
ronsmac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly View Post
N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries

The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.

I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
Saratoga and New York in general have had small fields on the dirt for years.
ronsmac is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-04-2018, 08:16 PM   #3
jay68802
Registered User
 
jay68802's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
And to support the overpriced take out, they also think that higher purses = larger field size.
jay68802 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-04-2018, 08:48 PM   #4
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Yea, Ron is correct this is nothing new, though Saratoga always felt a bit insulated to the problem but not anymore. The rich stakes get shippers so they usually do ok.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-05-2018, 10:08 AM   #5
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
Trainers love small fields.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-05-2018, 10:56 AM   #6
TheOracle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly View Post
N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries

The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.

I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
Hey Cholly

I can't speak for California tracks but at Saratoga the Allowance races on the Dirt have been quite small looks like barely 7 to 8 horses a race going back to 2016 to 2017 from what I can see
Code:
							
RowNum:	Pgm#:	Win$:	Plc$	Shw$:	Dist:	RCond:	TrCond:	     #Hrses:	  Date:	          ML	Horse	     Trainer
1	2	10.8	5.6	4.0	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	07-22-2016	  4/1#	Takrees (KY)	K P McLaughlin
2	5	37.4	7.8	4.4	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	07-23-2016	  12/1#	Tale of Verve (KY)	D Stewart
3	4	6.1	3.1	2.4	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	07-24-2016	  3/1#	Bird Song (KY)	I R Wilkes
4	2	7.0	5.1	3.7	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	12	07-24-2016	  4/1#	Super Surprise (NY)	T A Pletcher
5	2	27.8	11.6	7.3	6.5 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	07-29-2016	  12/1#	Eden Ridge (NY)	C F Martin
6	7	7.3	3.8	2.6	1 M	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	5	07-31-2016	  5/1#	Hammers Vision (ON)	B A Lynch
7	3	10.6	2.9	2.6	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	6	08-01-2016	  3/1#	Brimstone (NY)	J P Terranova II
8	3	4.5	2.9	2.5	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-05-2016	  5/2#	Linda Mimi (KY)	G Delgado
9	3	5.1	3.3	2.5	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	08-06-2016	  9/5#	Summer Revolution (KY)	R R Rodriguez
10	5	10.0	5.1	3.9	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	08-12-2016	  4/1#	Adulator (KY)	J A Jerkens
11	3	8.1	5.2	4.1	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	08-15-2016	  10/1#	Loose On the Town (ON)	B A Lynch
12	7	5.0	2.9	2.6	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	08-18-2016	  5/2#	Malibu Stacy (KY)	G Weaver
13	10	8.0	4.5	3.4	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	10	08-19-2016	  5/2#	Riot Worthy (NY)	C Baker
14	2	8.5	5.1	3.3	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Good	9	08-21-2016	  5/2#	Big Zip (NY)	R R Rodriguez
15	1	5.2	3.8	2.4	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-22-2016	  2/1#	Weekend Hideaway (NY)	P M Serpe
16	4	11.8	6.0	4.2	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Good	7	08-25-2016	  5/2#	Cadeyrn (KY)	J C Englehart
17	4	17.2	6.6	4.3	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-28-2016	  5/2#	Saharan (KY)	J A Jerkens
18	3	78.5	31.2	15.2	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	13	09-03-2016	  15/1#	Silver Ride (KY)	B A Lynch
19	7	7.5	4.8	2.8	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	09-04-2016	  3/1#	Bluegrass Prevails (NY)	G P Gullo
20	5	2.5	2.2	2.1	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	09-05-2016	  8/5#	Woodville (NY)	J R Abreu
21	8	8.6	3.9	3.4	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	07-21-2017	  7/2#	Takaful (KY)	K P McLaughlin
22	12	10.6	5.7	3.9	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	13	07-22-2017	  7/2#	Build to Suit (NY)	C C Brown
23	5	3.9	2.6	0.0	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	4	07-24-2017	  3/1#	Dawn the Destroyer (KY)	K P McLaughlin
24	4	6.0	4.0	3.0	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Good	6	07-26-2017	  5/2#	Fayeq (KY)	K P McLaughlin
25	1	15.2	5.8	3.0	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	5	07-31-2017	  5/2#	Smile Big (FL)	R R Rodriguez
26	4	7.6	4.4	3.1	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	08-04-2017	  3/1#	Petrov (KY)	R Moquett
27	4	13.8	6.6	3.9	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	8	08-06-2017	  5/2#	Royal Inheritance (NY)	D A Cannizzo
28	7	12.0	5.1	3.5	6.5 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	8	08-07-2017	  7/2#	Shimmering Moon (NY)	M Nevin
29	6	9.8	5.9	4.6	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-09-2017	  9/2#	Verdant Pastures (NY)	C Baker
30	2	8.9	5.3	3.5	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-11-2017	  5/1#	Dfunnything (NY)	C Baker
31	1	6.9	3.2	2.6	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	08-17-2017	  9/5#	Beasley (KY)	M A Hennig
32	9	4.5	3.0	2.3	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Muddy	6	08-18-2017	  2/1#	Caviar Czar (IRE)	T A Pletcher
33	7	28.6	9.1	6.9	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	08-19-2017	  15/1#	Race Me Home (IRE)	D L Romans
34	3	5.4	3.8	3.4	6.5 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	8	08-21-2017	  9/5#	Run and Go (KY)	T A Pletcher
35	7	9.7	5.3	4.1	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	9	08-24-2017	  2/1#	Jewel Can Disco (NY)	G P Gullo
36	5	16.2	6.9	3.4	6.5 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	7	08-24-2017	  12/1#	T Loves a Fight (NY)	M Nevin
37	6	3.2	2.2	2.1	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	08-30-2017	  8/5#	Mr. Crow (KY)	T A Pletcher
38	3	5.1	2.9	2.5	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	8	09-02-2017	  2/1#	Bluegrass Jamboree (NY)	C Baker
39	8	7.9	5.1	3.2	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	9	09-03-2017	  5/2#	Kirbys Penny (KY)	W A Ward

18 Prices under $8	46.1%	Avg Win $	11.8	
				
ML Odds	Win/Att	Pct	Win Amt	Cost	P / L Pct Rtrn per $1			
5/2	10/19	52.6%	97.9	38	59.9	157%			
2/1	4/11	36.3%	24.5	22	2.5	11%			
7/2	3/12	25%	31.2	24	7.2	30%			
All/5	5/15	33.3%	23.1	30	-6.9	-24%
What's interesting here is that the Morning Line Favorites have been having a field day

If you scroll down you'll see that those with a tag of 5/2 have won 10 of the last 19 races which to me is unbelievable!!!

There have not been many longshots in this situation it seems the Morning Line Favorites are running true to form especially the 5/2s for some reason!!!

Let's keep an eye on this situation from now on at Saratoga!!!

Also, I didn't keep track of the type of Allowance race N1X etc. if it said Allowance I just picked it up

Last edited by TheOracle; 08-05-2018 at 11:08 AM.
TheOracle is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-05-2018, 11:09 AM   #7
TheOracle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,625
I will take a look at 2018 for this situation at Saratoga

Code:
							
RowNum:	PgmNum:	Win$:	Plc$:	Shw$:	Dist:	RCond:	TrCond:	    #Hrses:	Date:	ML	Horse.         Trainer
1	3	18.0	8.5	5.6	6.5 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	10	07-20-2018	  6/1#	Hay Field (NY)	J C Englehart
2	4	4.8	3.5	2.5	1 1/8 M	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	6	07-26-2018	  2/1#	Alberobello (KY)	T A Pletcher
3	5	9.0	4.4	3.5	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Sloppy	9	07-27-2018	  7/2#	Stoney Bennett (NY)	L Rice
4	7	4.7	2.7	2.2	6 Furl	Alw	Dirt Good	7	07-28-2018	  7/2#	Satisfy (NY)	W I Mott
5	14	7.7	3.2	3.2	1 M	Alw	Dirt Good	6	07-28-2018	  3/1#	Chris and Dave (KY)	R Diodoro
6	8	33.2	11.2	4.4	7 Furl	Alw	Dirt Fast	6	07-29-2018	  12/1#	Uno Mas Modelo (KY)	A T Quartarolo

3 Prices under $8	50%	Avg Win $	12.9	
				
ML Odds	Win/Att	Pct	Win Amt	Cost	P / L	Pct Retrn per $1			
5/2	0/2	0%		4	-4	-100%			
2/1	1/2	50%	4.8	4	0.8	19%			
7/2	2/5	40%	13.7	10	3.7	36%			
All/5	0/0	0%		0	0	0%
It seems this year's Allowance races have not been dominated by the Morning Line Favorites

However, let's keep an eye on it for the rest of the Saratoga season!!!

I do notice just about 6 horses per race so far this year in this situation....hmmm

Last edited by TheOracle; 08-05-2018 at 11:23 AM.
TheOracle is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-06-2018, 03:06 PM   #8
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
Oracle,

How do you embed a sheet like that?
I assume it is text?

Thanks,
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-08-2018, 12:19 PM   #9
Robert Fischer
clean money
 
Robert Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
half ass race

Today's 8th race

they only carded half of a field to begin with (6 horses)

now one of the horses scratched, so we are down to 5 horses


five horses in the eighth race (supposed to be at or near the card's heart/peak) during a Saratoga card is SAD


Anecdotally, it seems that 50% of these cards either have some half-ass allowance field of 6 or 5 , or some half-ass restricted stakes with five or six horses.

We all love Saratoga, but they can do better than this.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.

Last edited by Robert Fischer; 08-08-2018 at 12:20 PM.
Robert Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-08-2018, 12:28 PM   #10
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
Almost seems to be planned.
They should stop carding certain classes - mayb only 1 race per meet.
Either run in it or ship out.
Wouldn't hurt Toga or NYRA for that matter, to have a few of the barn never run there again.

Obviously, the purses for these races should be cut in half - not worth the fields they draw now. OR re-write the conditions to allow horses from other tracks to ship in. Get rig of the $10,000 clause - make it simply nw1x, nw2x...etc.
So what if we get full fields from FL, Pen, FE...... still better than the slew of turf sprints and nw claimers they puke out onto us every day.

Racing Secretary not doing a good job for whatever reasons. 5 horse fields in August- time for a new strategy. This one ain't cutting it.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-09-2018, 01:38 PM   #11
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Trainers love small fields.
Not as much as owners.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
classhandicapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-09-2018, 02:20 PM   #12
Hapman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 36
Heck even the fourstardave Saturday has just 7 horses...
Hapman is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-09-2018, 02:23 PM   #13
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapman View Post
Heck even the fourstardave Saturday has just 7 horses...
And one of those cross entered at Arlington.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-10-2018, 11:32 AM   #14
Cholly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
Well, I was wrong about dirt allowance races ALWAYS scratching down to six entries. The 6th race today for N1X state-bred dirt sprinters only scratched down to 7 entries--maybe one of the trainers didn't get the memo?

The other two allowance races carded today scratched down to five entries each.
Cholly is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 08-10-2018, 05:08 PM   #15
Robert Fischer
clean money
 
Robert Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly View Post
Well, I was wrong about dirt allowance races ALWAYS scratching down to six entries. The 6th race today for N1X state-bred dirt sprinters only scratched down to 7 entries--maybe one of the trainers didn't get the memo?

The other two allowance races carded today scratched down to five entries each.
that was weird. Gave me goosebumps to see a n1x with a crowded field of 7...

At least today is 'featured' by the Tale of the Cat S. a Restricted $100K stakes with a field of 5 (and only 4 players).
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Robert Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.