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09-21-2014, 04:22 PM
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#1
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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BRIS speed ratings
What is the value of a point on the BRIS speed rating scale?
I looked at lots of old threads all morning, and came to the conclusion...who knows?
So looking at current data, consider the BRIS speed by Circuit for this week at Monmouth......
9/13 - two 1m16 races, #1 and #4 and two 6.0F races, #3 and #8
9/14 - four 6.0F races, #1, #3, #5, and #9
I plotted the SR point s and raw times and came up with a point at 1m16 is equal to .19 seconds, essentially a 1/5 of a second.
At 6.0F, a point was worth .131, .134, or .135, depending on how I treated the data from 9/14. On that day, races #1 and #5 did not line up on the trend line, while races #3 and #9 did, so it was a split variant.
Whichever, here is the data.....what do you think a point of SR is worth?
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09-21-2014, 04:33 PM
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#2
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
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Here is what I want to do -
Two pace lines:
6F....110.2....92
6F....111.1....98
The second race was the faster race, but by how much?
how many tenths of a second is that 6 points worth?
What is the adjusted time of the first race? Is is 112.0?
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Last edited by Tom; 09-21-2014 at 04:37 PM.
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09-21-2014, 05:09 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
HOW MANY SPEED POINTS REPRESENT ONE LENGTH ?
The BRIS Speed Ratings points-per-length scale is based on the long accepted premise that as distances increase the value of a length decreases. On the BRIS Speed Ratings scale one length is approximately equal to 1 1/2 pts in sprints and approximately 1 point in routes.
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Source: BRIS
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09-21-2014, 05:34 PM
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#4
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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That is lengths - I want time - how many points is 1/10 second worth.
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09-21-2014, 06:14 PM
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#5
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DJ M.Walk
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Compton, CA!
Posts: 2,072
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Would it not be 0.16 points per 1/10 of a second for 6 furlongs? so 6 points would be about 3.5 lengths.
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09-21-2014, 06:36 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
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The times for each horse other than the leader at each call is an estimate based on the leader's time adjusted for beaten lengths. We don't know the actual times for horses other than the leader. If 1 length is assumed to be 1/5 second, and if 1 length is 1.5 Bris speed points, then 1/10 sec. equals 0.75 points.
If the numbers in Tom's second post represent the winning times and the winner's speed ratings, then the time difference is 4/5 seconds, or 4 lengths. And the 6 point difference in speed figs., at 1.5 points per length, would also be 4 lengths.
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09-21-2014, 06:45 PM
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#7
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DJ M.Walk
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Compton, CA!
Posts: 2,072
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I use the chart of 10/6 = 1.66 points per length for 6 furlongs.
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09-21-2014, 06:59 PM
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#8
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I am lot looking at beaten lengths - time.
I want to adjust one pace line to another.
The 10/distance works for BLs, as does using that optin in the BRIS PP Generator - I substitute pace of race E1, E2, LP and SR for the race times.
But I want to compare final times of races.
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09-21-2014, 09:58 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
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I just ran some numbers on FL 1 mile and 40 yards and came up with one point of Bris speed # =.16 seconds i'll do a 6f after I help my boy with his geometry homework
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09-21-2014, 11:26 PM
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#10
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Here is what I want to do -
Two pace lines:
6F....110.2....92
6F....111.1....98
The second race was the faster race, but by how much?
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I'm assuming these are final times not internal pace times.
Since the 2nd race is faster by 6 points, and 1 length = 1.66 points (at 6f) Then:
6 points/1.66 points =3.61 lengths difference between the 2 races.This is confirmed when multiplying 3.61 lengths * 1.66 =6 points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
how many tenths of a second is that 6 points worth?
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1 speed points = 1/10 second = 1/2 length. 6 speed points = 6/10 seconds = 3 lengths
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
What is the adjusted time of the first race? Is is 112.0?
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Adjusted first race time = 110.2 +6/10ths = 110.8 Tenths.
Don't forget that the SR incorporates the variant and will cause some discrepancies.
The races you posted could not have been from the same day on the same track at the same distance or else the first race would have a higher SR.
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09-21-2014, 11:38 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
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Tom,
Don't know if this helps.
From the archives...
http://216.92.33.211/forum/printthre...?t=42306&pp=40
Tom 01-07-2008 03:22 PM
Been working on this and came up with some new values for a point of BRIS speed.
At 6 furlongs, I get 1 point = .12 seconds and at 1 mile, 1 point = .17
I had been using 0.1 for all distances, but got to many really odd times.
Theses two values are not really that constant either - lots of variation, or BRIS splits variants almost every other day.
I need to feed some more days in to my db to do the other distances.
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09-22-2014, 07:43 AM
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#12
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Time and beaten lengths are not the same value.
I'm trying to figure out time.
And I can't find something repeatable.
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09-22-2014, 09:10 AM
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#13
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Time and beaten lengths are not the same value.
I'm trying to figure out time.
And I can't find something repeatable.
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If time was repeatable, every pool would be negative. You can spend the rest of your days trying to find a way to make time repeatable and you would die a broken man.
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09-22-2014, 09:35 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Time and beaten lengths are not the same value.
I'm trying to figure out time.
And I can't find something repeatable.
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This sounds like time:
At 6 furlongs, I get 1 point = .12 seconds and at 1 mile, 1 point = .17
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09-22-2014, 09:39 AM
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#15
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
If time was repeatable, every pool would be negative. You can spend the rest of your days trying to find a way to make time repeatable and you would die a broken man.
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I'm talking about how much a point of SR is worth. I sit .13, .16? .2?
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