NBA Finals series odds

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by maddog42

I like the rule. It rewards good defense. If you haven't noticed, I appreciate good defense almost as much as good offense.

I expect the Home team to get the calls. OKC got the benefit at home( but not by much). The Heat have gotten a huge number of calls to go their way. The National media is all over this. Westbrook probably go fouled at least 5 or 6 times with no call. Durant go hammered HARD several times with no call. Ridiculous!!

How is this a good rule when there was 0.8 left on the clock? How is great defense rewarded by giving the offense 4.2 more seconds to shoot?

The refs are another story I really don't know what their seeing. Even Harden's blocking foul was questionable to me but then again I always state let them play as long as it isn't egregious.

[maddog42]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

How is this a good rule when there was 0.8 left on the clock? How is great defense rewarded by giving the offense 4.2 more seconds to shoot?

The refs are another story I really don't know what their seeing. Even Harden's blocking foul was questionable to me but then again I always state let them play as long as it isn't egregious.

Ok I thought you wanted to give more than 5 seconds. Didn't the old rule give the offense a new clock?

[cj]

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by maddog42

Ok I thought you wanted to give more than 5 seconds. Didn't the old rule give the offense a new clock?

The rule was changed in 2003 even Wade stated yesterday he didn't know about it. Count me in as another who didn't have a clue at least I'm in good company. I always thought it was the original time left on the clock. That's what happens on a jump ball when its over five seconds.

2003-04
• The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 5 seconds, whichever is greater, any time on jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense.


Pre 2003

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_7....av=ArticleList

Section IV-Resetting 24-Second Clock
a. The 24-second clock shall be reset when a special situation occurs which warrants such action.

(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by cj

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

I heard some interesting callers this morning and would like your opinion. One stated that Rondo was bitching about the Heat crying and getting calls which is pretty accurate. But another caller really had me thinking when he said "almost every team leader argues fouls and Durant doesn't". He then went on to state look at Duncan he constantly does it. I know it's not in Durant's character to do it but maybe there should be an exception tonight.

I would also hope he would give the pregame team speech instead of Fisher. A guy who has goose eggs for twenty two minutes should at least go to Durant and say "its your team they will follow and believe in you".

My two cents.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I heard some interesting callers this morning and would like your opinion. One stated that Rondo was bitching about the Heat crying and getting calls which is pretty accurate. But another caller really had me thinking when he said "almost every team leader argues fouls and Durant doesn't". He then went on to state look at Duncan he constantly does it. I know it's not in Durant's character to do it but maybe there should be an exception tonight.

I would also hope he would give the pregame team speech instead of Fisher. A guy who has goose eggs for twenty two minutes should at least go to Durant and say "its your team they will follow and believe in you".

My two cents.

I totally agree. Durant is a great leader. He needs to give the speeches.

As for his demeanor, it is sad but true. Instead of being respected for not complaining, he is taken advantage of because the officials figure he is an easy mark. Westbrook doesn't bitch much either, but once he does, it is usually an explosion. He got plenty of techs during the season. I've honestly never seen a player get fouled as often as he does and basically get nothing but the most obvious calls. Hell, he didn't even get those on Tuesday. Those officials were a disgrace.

Some of it goes back to Brooks. He is constantly preaching not to worry about calls. That is great for the players, but I don't think he stands up for them. That is what great coaches do. They back their players. I'm sick of the Scott Brooks "Opie Taylor" act.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by cj

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

CJ,

I mentioned this glaring discrepancy in one of my previous posts. As a stat guy, you can appreciate why this ratio of FTA to FT is the most out of whack I've seen in decades of watching this game. Aside from that, because of the Lebron/Heat narrative, nobody has commented on the fact that Westbrook's performance was one of the greatest ever in the Finals. How many people have ever scored more than 43 in a Finals game? Only seven:Wilt, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Rick Barry, Shaq, Allen Iverson, and Bob Pettit - pretty good company. To put it in perspective, if the whistle had blown for Westbrook on,say, eight of those 12-15 fouls, and he had hit them all (not unreasonable), he would have had 59 points, second only to Baylor's Finals record of 61. It was one of the most mind-blowing feats I've witnessed in the NBA since the reign of MJ - and Westbrook is only 23. Incredible.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by cj

I totally agree. Durant is a great leader. He needs to give the speeches.

As for his demeanor, it is sad but true. Instead of being respected for not complaining, he is taken advantage of because the officials figure he is an easy mark. Westbrook doesn't bitch much either, but once he does, it is usually an explosion. He got plenty of techs during the season. I've honestly never seen a player get fouled as often as he does and basically get nothing but the most obvious calls. Hell, he didn't even get those on Tuesday. Those officials were a disgrace.

Some of it goes back to Brooks. He is constantly preaching not to worry about calls. That is great for the players, but I don't think he stands up for them. That is what great coaches do. They back their players. I'm sick of the Scott Brooks "Opie Taylor" act.

CJ,

Agree with the basic thought, but more than anyone else, I think it's the coach who needs to put the wood to the officials, even before the series begins - Phil Jackson was a master at this, and it was only one of a number of weapons in his arsenal of gamesmanship. It's good to be humble and loveable in real life, as Brooks and Durant are, but not while you're competing at the highest levels in any field of endeavor. But it's understandable to me that Durant is reluctant to take over as leader, with older players who have championship rings like Fisher, on the team.

That said, I think Brooks is making a huge mistake in giving Fisher more than very limited minutes at this point. He's just too old to play the game at this level of intensity any longer. And with Harden also screwing the pooch from the perimeter, OKC is without a genuine spot-up shooter with a quick enough release to beat Miami's close-out perimeter defenders. It's a dilemma.

Hope they can do it tonight and send the series back to OKC. They've already shown me and I think many fans that they are the better team.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by lansdale

CJ,

I mentioned this glaring discrepancy in one of my previous posts. As a stat guy, you can appreciate why this ratio of FTA to FT is the most out of whack I've seen in decades of watching this game. Aside from that, because of the Lebron/Heat narrative, nobody has commented on the fact that Westbrook's performance was one of the greatest ever in the Finals. How many people have ever scored more than 43 in a Finals game? Only seven:Wilt, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Rick Barry, Shaq, Allen Iverson, and Bob Pettit - pretty good company. To put it in perspective, if the whistle had blown for Westbrook on,say, eight of those 12-15 fouls, and he had hit them all (not unreasonable), he would have had 59 points, second only to Baylor's Finals record of 61. It was one of the most mind-blowing feats I've witnessed in the NBA since the reign of MJ - and Westbrook is only 23. Incredible.

Above should read 'ratio of FGA to FT'.

[elysiantraveller]

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

[slew101]

Something I didn't see mentioned yet. The biggest play of Game 4 was Westbrook's turnover at 94-92 OKC at about the 3-minute mark. I think they had run off 7 straight at that point to take the lead. As he's heading up the floor I'm thinking if they get a hoop here, this is over. He then dribbled it off his foot, and the Heat scored next trip down.

I also thought those back-to-back fouls on 3-pointers were huge to give Miami some cheap points. Although Fisher did have a 4-pointer himself a minute earlier.

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

[mistergee]

in first 5 games fouls are 83 to 77, wish the media would stop with the excuses. the thunder is not using that excuse

[cj]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

I'm not sure what to say if you don't think Westbrook was getting fouled. Even ESPN was commenting on it and showing the close ups. You didn't even need the close ups.

[cj]

Originally Posted by slew101

Something I didn't see mentioned yet. The biggest play of Game 4 was Westbrook's turnover at 94-92 OKC at about the 3-minute mark. I think they had run off 7 straight at that point to take the lead. As he's heading up the floor I'm thinking if they get a hoop here, this is over. He then dribbled it off his foot, and the Heat scored next trip down.

I also thought those back-to-back fouls on 3-pointers were huge to give Miami some cheap points. Although Fisher did have a 4-pointer himself a minute earlier.

He dribbled it off his foot. Not much to say about it, the guy was incredible.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm not sure what to say if you don't think Westbrook was getting fouled. Even ESPN was commenting on it and showing the close ups. You didn't even need the close ups.

Well the Thunder are getting plenty of calls so far tonight. Like I said, he got a couple that weren't called.

The refs are not the difference in these games the Heat are the better team.