DRF corporate greed and BRIS

[Tom]

For $10, you would think they could put the races in order.

[barahona44]

Originally Posted by betovernetcapper

I'll say up front that I get most of my data from HDW. I will use Formulator from time to time.
In the old days, getting a copy of the next days DRF, meant showing up at a newsstand at 8pm in order to get one of the 6 - 8 copies dropped off. This was a really pain. Now like many other publications they're finding that it's not profitable to sell a print edition. Magazines that are making money on their print editions like GQ or Guns & Ammo or Vogue have an ad on every other page. The ad revenue in DRF is negligible at best.
If you buy a online card & bet $25 on DRF Bets, your reimbursed the cost of the card.
Everyday they offer a free online version of Formulator on the Race of the Day section.
Every few weeks they offer a free Webinar and have an extensive number of YouTube films showing how to use this or that feature.
While a lot of folks beat up on Beyer figs, on figs that just express the final time of the horse they are pretty good. There are other figs that incorporate pace, weight and ground lost. That's fine, but that's not what the Beyer figs are designed to do.
I like the Moss pace figs. I've never trusted the raw pace times.
They seem to be constantly working on improvement and offering some new feature.

OK maybe not perfect, but a hell of a lot better then it was 30 years ago.
In short, this is America, if you don't like it use something else.

You have an interesting collection of magazine subscriptions.

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You are just making things up...in order to prove your point. The truth is that Steve Crist has repeatedly stated that the DRF printed edition remains a major profit source for the company.

Really?…Repeatedly?....Recently?….You’re just making that up.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

Really?…Repeatedly?....Recently?….You’re just making that up.

Steve Crist said it on two separate occasions last year...when he was asked if the printed edition of the DRF was on the verge of being phased out due to the unprofitability factor.

I'm not 100% sure...but I dare say that twice means "repeatedly".

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I'll only speak for AQU but when I look around. I see maybe 2% of people with a PC/Laptop/Tablet. 80% with a simulcast program (you know the one that has a 130 pace figure for a horse with a 26 opening Quarter ) and maybe 18% using a DRF at the BIG A.

Unfortunately, those people probably don't even know other products exist.

I only speak for Cby, but when I look around I see about 3% with a laptop/tablet, 90% with DRF and 9% with 'other'. (2% use computer + something else)

[biggestal99]

I get the digital form to supplement the formulator, its great and cheap.

Allan

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Steve Crist said it on two separate occasions last year...when he was asked if the printed edition of the DRF was on the verge of being phased out due to the unprofitability factor.

I'm not 100% sure...but I dare say that twice means "repeatedly".

I'd love for you to post links to where he said that.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You are just making things up...in order to prove your point. The truth is that Steve Crist has repeatedly stated that the DRF printed edition remains a major profit source for the company.

Yeah, and that's why its 10 bucks. They have to keep raising the price to make money. Every printed publication in the country is going through this. They all want you to pay something for online articles or the online version is a total pain in the ass because of umpteen ads. So many that the script actually slows your computer down. That's the dilemma that newsprint companies are facing everywhere. That and the fact that horse racing only gets a real sniff mostly on Saturday and the big days. I mean how many do they expect to sell most Mondays and Tuesdays? Let alone Wednesday through Friday. Its easy to say your making money on a 5 dollar newspaper that costs 10 bucks.

And others are saying its for the Beyer speed figures. That's peoples "secret" betting strategy? Thanks, that makes me feel warm all over, especially on the cheek where my wallet is planted.

Any type of publication like this that says they are not struggling, not fighting to keep up or stay aloat...is lying to your face. They are trying to stay alive.....that's why a 5 dollar paper costs 10 bucks and they make money but they also get closer and closer to pricing themselves out of existence. Look how many horse players bitch, just on this forum........all the time. They may be making a buck or two now, but like I said, if they claim they are not feeling the heat.....they are lying....flat out. Two years from now....Yeah we're making money....the thing only costs 20 bucks and you can have the privilege of reading our articles online for 3 bucks a piece......Its a damn shame because my friends and I used to enjoy reading the "news" part of the Racing Form. Some days that was the best part.

Of course, people can keep listening to the blow hards that jump up and down and tell people how great the game is doing. I think the local OTB channel (Capital OTB) here has about 2 or 3 of them left on staff.......... . And they lost half their signals, its booming I tell ya!.....

[Spiderman]

DRF is foundering. I gave up with them when I went to purchase pps online and each and every time, it was required to re-type all of my information, including 16-digit credit card #. At about the same time, I discovered and learned to utilize the information in Brisnet. Have not looked-back since 1999.

DRF has failed to recognize their unique status in publishing, being both a consumer and a trade publication. It could develop greater recognition in the advertising community with a make-over. My consultancy is open to discuss the path to achieve greater advertising revenue goals.

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by barahona44

You have an interesting collection of magazine subscriptions.

My doctor has an interesting choice of magazine subscriptions.

[Cratos]

I subscribe to DRF annual unlimited package and in conjunction I used both Trakus and Equibase because there is not one comprehensive data supplier for my use.

Do I think the info is too cost?

That is difficult to say because the collection and distribution systems of horserace data appear to be antiquated and if so, cost will be high.

[NorCalGreg]

Damn.....I had an entire THESIS STATEMENT almost ready to hit "submit"--about Beyer, Bris, EQ speed figures--since a couple posters made comments like "they're comforted people still use Beyer SR"...and someone else stated they weren't happy with Bris' computer-generated figs.

Anyway...I clicked the wrong button, and nuked my incredibly interesting post.

The gist of it was: they're isn't enough difference in ANY ---to make one cent difference in your personal ROI, unless you're maybe an upper-stratosphere world class handicapper. I'm certainly not one. Enhanced SR's and Pace figs are just that--ENHANCED.
Meaning they take more into account--than just final time--or fractional time.
If you want to pay extra--you can get damn near anything "enhanced".

"The Table below shows the approximate comparative numerical values for Performance Figures (PF), Beyer Speed Figures (BSF), Timeform Ratings (TR), Racing Post Ratings (RPR), BRIS Ratings (BRIS) and Equibase Speed Figures (EB) where the numbers apply to races for older males in open company.
The comparisons are based on newly-completed studies in 2014. The BSF/TR comparison is based on a previously published approximation in which a TR is about 15 points higher than the corresponding BSF.
By way of illustration, a typical Grade 1 winner will have a PF of -77. Using the Table, this figure is equivalent to a BSF of about 105, a TR of about 120, a RPR of about 117, a BRIS Rating of about 107 and an EB of about 116. The correlation coefficients which measure the closeness of the fit between PFs and the other figures are displayed as well. The nearer a correlation coefficient is to 1.00, the closer the fit between the two sets of figures."

This basically measures the REAL difference in ratings, using the correlation of Beyer/Timeform as a "baseline". Got news for you DRF vs EB vs Bris bashers---ain't no difference.
The only "bashing" anyone can discern from this, is don't use those RACING REPORT RATINGS (whatever they are?) --they WILL kill your ROI

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by NorCalGreg

Damn.....I had an entire THESIS STATEMENT almost ready to hit "submit"--about Beyer, Bris, EQ speed figures--since a couple posters made comments like "they're comforted people still use Beyer SR"...and someone else stated they weren't happy with Bris' computer-generated figs.

Anyway...I clicked the wrong button, and nuked my incredibly interesting post.

The gist of it was: they're isn't enough difference in ANY ---to make one cent difference in your personal ROI, unless you're maybe an upper-stratosphere world class handicapper. I'm certainly not one. Enhanced SR's and Pace figs are just that--ENHANCED.
Meaning they take more into account--than just final time--or fractional time.
If you want to pay extra--you can get damn near anything "enhanced".

"The Table below shows the approximate comparative numerical values for Performance Figures (PF), Beyer Speed Figures (BSF), Timeform Ratings (TR), Racing Post Ratings (RPR), BRIS Ratings (BRIS) and Equibase Speed Figures (EB) where the numbers apply to races for older males in open company.
The comparisons are based on newly-completed studies in 2014. The BSF/TR comparison is based on a previously published approximation in which a TR is about 15 points higher than the corresponding BSF.
By way of illustration, a typical Grade 1 winner will have a PF of -77. Using the Table, this figure is equivalent to a BSF of about 105, a TR of about 120, a RPR of about 117, a BRIS Rating of about 107 and an EB of about 116. The correlation coefficients which measure the closeness of the fit between PFs and the other figures are displayed as well. The nearer a correlation coefficient is to 1.00, the closer the fit between the two sets of figures."

This basically measures the REAL difference in ratings, using the correlation of Beyer/Timeform as a "baseline". Got news for you DRF vs EB vs Bris bashers---ain't no difference.
The only "bashing" anyone can discern from this, is don't use those RACING REPORT RATINGS (whatever they are?) --they WILL kill your ROI

Nice.

How does the "I don't put much into any speed ratings" statement sound? That is where I stand.

Like yourself, I'm a big believer in BRIS Pace Ratings, or at least their pace factors.

I feel naked without them.

However, I can, and will, go above and beyond any rating system as I see fit. The "other" factors are at least 60% of my "game".

[deelo]

I did like using bris pace ratings for a while, but until they can come out with anything comparable to Formulator, I'm on the DRF annual unlimited

[NorCalGreg]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Nice.

How does the "I don't put much into any speed ratings" statement sound? That is where I stand.

Like yourself, I'm a big believer in BRIS Pace Ratings, or at least their pace factors.

I feel naked without them.

However, I can, and will, go above and beyond any rating system as I see fit. The "other" factors are at least 60% of my "game".

I'm in lock-step with you on everything you just said, LD....even to the point of giving extra credit--or discounting speed and pace figures---based on a horse's running position/lengths behind.. at a given point in a race.

Why should a horse just be "rewarded" with an outstanding figure--if he did nothing to participate in earning that figure?

This "relational pace" concept is nothing new... just an example of common sense when using ANY figures.