Gulfsteam Horse Weight

[BIG49010]

I noticed they are putting the horse's weight up on the

TV feed from Gulfstream, and I wondered if anyone knows of any other
place they might be seen if you miss the view on TV?

[Jeff P]

Weight of horse has been part of the Hong Kong data for a really long time.

Going from memory, weight of horse as reported the last few years by North American Tracks --

Remington Park started displaying it as part of their track video three or four years ago.

Soon after, Golden Gate, Portland Meadows, and Santa Anita (Stronach Group Tracks) started doing it.

Soon after, I asked HDW if weight of horse was being disseminated by Equibase in the sql tables transmitted to their licensed data resellers Brisnet, DRF, HDW, Trackmaster, etc.

Turns out it was. So I asked Ron Tiller at HDW about adding weight of horse (if reported to Equibase by the tracks) to a field in their downloadable F.txt chart files - which he did.

I'm guessing by now one or more of the other data providers may have added weight of horse to their charts data as well.

I know Gulfstream (a Stronach Group Track) has been reporting weight of horse to Equibase for a while now - because weight of horse has been finding its way into the Gulfstream chart data I get from HDW.

But I don't recall seeing weight of horse displayed as part of Gulfstream's video presentation before.

I'll look for it as part of the Gulfstream video now that you've posted about it. THANKS!

Last year abut this time, I asked Equibase if it might be possible to add weight of horse (if reported to them by the tracks) to the Scratches and Changes XML. They said OK but did not commit to a date.

I'm hopeful this will be soon. Imo, weight of horse makes an interesting data point in that sometimes it can tell you a lot about a horse's condition and picking it up manually from video on race day is a fair amt of work.

Now you know what I know.


-jp

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[schorses]

Is this data in Bris or TM or any other product now?

Do all tracks now report it?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Weight of horse has been part of the Hong Kong data for a really long time.

Correct! Not only that, but the reported weight of each entry is posted for the current event and all previous events listed in their PP's and Form Guide.

[Jeff P]

Before the pandemic --

Weight of Horse was showing up in the Equibase Chart Data for the handful of tracks that were having their horses step on a scale prior to each race.

Tracks that were doing this off the top of my head:

Golden Gate, Gulfstream, Laurel, Portland Meadows, Remington, and Santa Anita. (There could be one or two others I'm not aware of.)

At my request, HDW started including Weight of Horse in their comma delimited text chart files.

Soon after that they started including Weight of Horse in their binary PPs files as well.

For those running lines where Weight of Horse was recorded by the track prior to a race - and was subsequently passed on to Equibase:

Weight of Horse was/is available in the HDW Data. And you can display it in JCapper PPs.

And if I had to hazard a guess... that's likely true for other data vendors as well.

But ONLY for cases where Weight of Horse was recorded by the track prior to the race for that running line.

Fast forward to today --

Portland Meadows has since closed.

Last year, with the onset of the pandemic - most (I think all) tracks stopped having their horses step on a scale prior to each race.

I'm guessing they were happy they were being allowed to conduct live racing at all.

Then earlier this year, I noticed Weight of Horse started showing up again as part of the track video for Golden Gate and Santa Anita.

Looking at PPs for today 03-21-2021, I'm seeing Weight of Horse for some of the running lines at Golden Gate, Laurel, and Santa Anita.

But I'm NOT seeing Weight of Horse in any of the running lines at Gulfstream.

See thumbnail (below) for horse #5 TALE OF DIXIE, the winner of 03-19-2021 LRL R3.

Note that Weight of Horse is only available for two running lines. Weighed in at 1027 on Jan 10th 2021. Weighed in at 1091 on Feb 25th 2021.

Didn't see video for today's race. But from the HDW Chart Data I can see that TALE OF DIXIE weighed in at 1092 lbs today.

Fyi, I wish ALL tracks would start recording Weight of Horse prior to each race.



-jp

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[The_Turf_Monster]

Nice work, JP

I wonder how accurate these weights are. I can’t even get one of my dogs to stand on the scale at the vet and I imagine it’s equally difficult to get a horse to do it

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by Nitro

Correct! Not only that, but the reported weight of each entry is posted for the current event and all previous events listed in their PP's and Form Guide.

Has anyone analyzed the data enough to make any sense of it from a handicapping perspective?

I have a feeling it's just more noise.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Has anyone analyzed the data enough to make any sense of it from a handicapping perspective?

I have a feeling it's just more noise.

I wouldn't mind knowing that type of info, on a given play, in conjunction with a physical appraisal.

example: 2/19 filly weighed 950lbs and looked a bit lean an underdeveloped,

and was claimed for a barn that has been on a fortunate streak,

and today 3/19 she weighs 1000lbs and is well developed behind the saddle...



Then you have models moving in the same direction, and it's a bit of a potential positive.


Or on a more macro level, I'm sure with enough data, you could do 'Formulator'-like stat searches, and see potential angles and ROI.

[SkunkApe]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

Nice work, JP

I wonder how accurate these weights are. I can’t even get one of my dogs to stand on the scale at the vet and I imagine it’s equally difficult to get a horse to do it

You just weigh yourself, then pick up the dog and step on the scale, then subtract.

Same with horses.

Duh.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Has anyone analyzed the data enough to make any sense of it from a handicapping perspective?

I have a feeling it's just more noise.

Only Nitro has unlocked the secret.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Has anyone analyzed the data enough to make any sense of it from a handicapping perspective?

I have a feeling it's just more noise.

It’s absolutely done in HK racing because it’s been available continuously for decades. Accurate weighing is apparently another mandatory requirement regulated by the HK Jockey Club. It’s just another example of the overall transparency that their game provides to it’s patrons.

From a handicapping perspective I’m sure there are those who attempt to apply this information mathematically to the PP running lines in combination with the various weights carried by each entry. That’s because the majority of races run in HK are handicaps where entries in any given race will also carry additional weight varying anywhere from 130+ lbs. to 113 lbs.

What I find interesting is how one of the moderators there (Jenny) provides a professionally observed physicality summary of each and every entry during the 30 minutes between each race. These detailed observations include a referral to an animal’s current weight versus the its weight carried in previous races and how its current appearance has been impacted by any change in that weight. BTW all of her pre-race selections are always based solely on the horse’s overall physicality. It’s just another quality feature offered to their patrons and something on that level that’s obviously missing from the pre-race commentary here in the States.

I’ve often witnessed both positive and negative tote board fluctuations based on her reported physicality analysis.
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[Onesome]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Has anyone analyzed the data enough to make any sense of it from a handicapping perspective?

I have a feeling it's just more noise.

2016 Olympic 100m top 3
Bolt-206 lbs
Gatlin-183 lbs
De Grasse-155 lbs

2016 Olympic Marathon top 3
Kipchoge-115 lbs
Lilesa-Unknown
Rupp-135 lbs

Lets just say in the hk database i work with I see a very similar linear trend of the avg weight of the winner as the distances get longer.

[classhandicapper]

Dog racing has been ahead of horse racing on this for decades. I hope they aren't decades ahead of us again in the US.

It would be interesting to look at, but I suspect a lot of it would be noise. There might be certain situations where it would be helpful, like during the Triple Crown or another tough campaign or for 2yo and 3yos when they come back off scheduled layoffs to see if they've grown and filled out.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by SkunkApe

You just weigh yourself, then pick up the dog and step on the scale, then subtract.

Same with horses.

Duh.

Id pay money to see somebody pick up a horse

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

Id pay money to see somebody pick up a horse

Don't know who to tell you to send the money to.

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