Absolute Bull FL2

[BIGTKLO]

[QUOTE= I didn't see that and wonder why Tony Calo wouldn't announce that the horse was held by the starter if that was the case.

All I was told by the stewards was that the horse had been declared a non starter. I waited for some other explanation but nothing else was said.

[Light]

One last point I'd like to make about these type of instances is that I really doubt a gate starter can impede a horse out the gate. First the horse is 1200 pounds of muscle. The starter is maybe 150-200 pounds of so so muscle. There is a jockey telling the horse to go. If a starter holds onto a horse in some form, he is going to get yanked out of the starting gate or his arm is going to get yanked out of its socket. It's the human not the horse who will be impeded.

In this case the starter was behind the horse at his butt. What can he possibly hold onto there besides his tail which he did not? He was pushing down on the horses butt with one hand while holding onto the gate and balancing himself with another to try to settle him. They want me to believe that this gate starter can hold a horse back in the gate with one hand on his smooth hind that has nothing to grab onto. Right. And I have a bridge to sell you.

There was another horse I played against last night at Canterbury. Again odds on, and this time I didn't have to wait for the bs that he is a non starter. He flipped in the gate as it was about to open and was scratched. These horses who have peaked and about to throw in a clunker are assumed to be the winners or hit the board by the stewards and if they don't get out the gate it must be the superhuman gate starter who can hold a horse back with one hand despite the jock on the horses back telling him to go. They know nothing about form. All three of these horses (FL, Emd, Cby) I have mentioned now had the same nervousness in the gate because they were about to go off form. The horses knew it but not the humans.

These type of horses cause their own problems. The gate starters merely try to keep them calm. To blame the gate starter for horses hopping in the air is a myth. But it is a convenient myth for racetracks to sell their customers when they deem necessary. I never received a response from FL for my inquiry into the reason the horse was scratched. Doesn't surprise me. Because they don't have a legitimate one that would stand up to the laws of nature.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Light

...

In this case the starter was behind the horse at his butt. ...

Your video feed must be way worse than even mine.

[Hambletonian]

Originally Posted by Light

One last point I'd like to make about these type of instances is that I really doubt a gate starter can impede a horse out the gate. First the horse is 1200 pounds of muscle. The starter is maybe 150-200 pounds of so so muscle. There is a jockey telling the horse to go. If a starter holds onto a horse in some form, he is going to get yanked out of the starting gate or his arm is going to get yanked out of its socket. It's the human not the horse who will be impeded.

In this case the starter was behind the horse at his butt. What can he possibly hold onto there besides his tail which he did not? He was pushing down on the horses butt with one hand while holding onto the gate and balancing himself with another to try to settle him. They want me to believe that this gate starter can hold a horse back in the gate with one hand on his smooth hind that has nothing to grab onto. Right. And I have a bridge to sell you.

There was another horse I played against last night at Canterbury. Again odds on, and this time I didn't have to wait for the bs that he is a non starter. He flipped in the gate as it was about to open and was scratched. These horses who have peaked and about to throw in a clunker are assumed to be the winners or hit the board by the stewards and if they don't get out the gate it must be the superhuman gate starter who can hold a horse back with one hand despite the jock on the horses back telling him to go. They know nothing about form. All three of these horses (FL, Emd, Cby) I have mentioned now had the same nervousness in the gate because they were about to go off form. The horses knew it but not the humans.

These type of horses cause their own problems. The gate starters merely try to keep them calm. To blame the gate starter for horses hopping in the air is a myth. But it is a convenient myth for racetracks to sell their customers when they deem necessary. I never received a response from FL for my inquiry into the reason the horse was scratched. Doesn't surprise me. Because they don't have a legitimate one that would stand up to the laws of nature.

Really, just stop already. Your theories are embarrassingly horrific, and the fact that you believe them and still bet on horse racing, well, I am mostly speechless.

Starters can and do impede horses every day, mostly due to the fault of the horses, but anything that leads to a horse not being alert and ready at the start and pointed straight ahead is going to cost them.

A good gate crew is worth their weight in gold.

I was at Grants Pass once and witnessed what had to be the worst gate crew in history. They took so long to load that every other race (mainly QHs) had a late scratch after a horse got agitated and reared up, fell over backwards or otherwise threw a massive temper tantrum, occasionally kicking their neighbors leading to more scratches. One guy literally got straight behind a reluctant loader and tried to push him into the gate, and for a moment I wondered what the life insurance situation was for these dudes.

A good gate crew and a good starter makes for good racing.

[TheGarMan]

As an off topic "side note" I am always intrigued by the gate starting process....

As the load in is finished, it seems there are always 2-3 assistants yelling "NO", "NO", "NO" , and in a split second the bell rings and they are off...

My guess is that there is a lot happening in there behind the scenes...

It is truly a wonder those guys don't get hurt more often...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by TheGarMan

...

It is truly a wonder those guys don't get hurt more often...

Most underappreciated people on the racetrack in the afternoon. Nobody ever has a word to say about all of the riders that they sacrifice themselves for and horses that they keep from killing themselves, but can't wait to blame them for the rare event that they can't overcome with perfection.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

Really, just stop already. Your theories are embarrassingly horrific, and the fact that you believe them and still bet on horse racing, well, I am mostly speechless.

LOL, Get a grip. It's only a horse forum.

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

Starters can and do impede horses every day,

Be specific. Tell me how they hold a 1200 lb animal from taking off when the jock says go without getting killed or seriously injured.

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

I was at Grants Pass once and witnessed what had to be the worst gate crew in history. They took so long to load that every other race (mainly QHs) had a late scratch after a horse got agitated and reared up, fell over backwards or otherwise threw a massive temper tantrum, occasionally kicking their neighbors leading to more scratches. One guy literally got straight behind a reluctant loader and tried to push him into the gate, and for a moment I wondered what the life insurance situation was for these dudes.

A good gate crew and a good starter makes for good racing.

That does not address anything I am saying regarding gate crews allegedly impeding a horses start.

[Light]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Your video feed must be way worse than even mine.

I just watched it again in case I 'm wrong but there is no other gate starter there except the one standing in the back of the gate of the horse in question. As the horses leave it is clear that all the gate starters are one per gate at the back.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Light

I just watched it again in case I 'm wrong but there is no other gate starter there except the one standing in the back of the gate of the horse in question. As the horses leave it is clear that all the gate starters are one per gate at the back.

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm actually wondering if we are even watching the same race at this point. But I can't really think of a place that has the "headers" head the horse at the ass end.

Edited just to mention that for they most part the step back from the pontoons towards the tail and jump off there after they are released so maybe it just appears to you as though they are at the rear of the gate when it opens.

[Light]

I don't know what you are seeing either. The head on clearly shows only 1 stater at the back and nobody is straightening this horses head out in the front because there is nobody there. The extra gate crew guys you may see are BEHIND the gate, not inside. look closely. This is FL June 22 2nd race FYI

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Light

I don't know what you are seeing either. The head on clearly shows only 1 stater at the back and nobody is straightening this horses head out in the front because there is nobody there. The extra gate crew guys you may see are BEHIND the gate, not inside. look closely. This is FL June 22 2nd race FYI

Yeah we are watching the same race. I see a horse that is light up front, tossing his head, and the header does a good job getting him straight for a second and the starter kicks it. At the moment he hits the button, the horse goes up again and it even appears to me, though I can't say with certainty, that the header has a hold of the left ear when the gate opens. I say this only to demonstrate just how wildly differently two people can see something and use that as my segue into departing from this exercise.

[appistappis]

I'm pretty sure that finger lakes gets guys from mcdonalds on their lunch breaks to work the gate.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by appistappis

I'm pretty sure that finger lakes gets guys from mcdonalds on their lunch breaks to work the gate.

There will be a more thoughtless comment made on this board this year, but it won't be easy.

Working the gate is extraordinarily difficult and dangerous. Have a little respect please.

[green80]

[QUOTE=Hambletonian]Really, just stop already. Your theories are embarrassingly horrific, and the fact that you believe them and still bet on horse racing, well, I am mostly speechless.

That seems to sum it all up.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Yeah we are watching the same race. I see a horse that is light up front, tossing his head, and the header does a good job getting him straight for a second and the starter kicks it. At the moment he hits the button, the horse goes up again and it even appears to me, though I can't say with certainty, that the header has a hold of the left ear when the gate opens. I say this only to demonstrate just how wildly differently two people can see something and use that as my segue into departing from this exercise.

It helps a lot when one of those people has money bet on what they're watching. It makes you imagine things that aren't there.