The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[Vinnie]

It casts a shadow of suspicion over essentially anything and everything that he has accomplished in the past within the realm of horse racing.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by cj

Not really surprising given what happened there for several years.

https://www.app.com/story/sports/202...ll/7517422002/

Another bad move by Monmouth. I couldn't bet the track the last few years because Navarro had so many horses first or second start off the claim, it made the track look like a joke.

[stuball]

Originally Posted by Gamblin4ever

Monmouth Park released statement saying he is welcomed there, even with suspension.

WHORES

[MONEY]

Originally Posted by stuball

WHORES

Some of my favorite friends were whores.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by pandy

Another bad move by Monmouth. I couldn't bet the track the last few years because Navarro had so many horses first or second start off the claim, it made the track look like a joke.

I wonder why Drazin felt the need to make a statement. Curious to see how the Racing Commission/State reacts to this. Monmouth gets $7.5M in state funding and the state flexed is muscle on 2019 Haskell Day with the heat

[classhandicapper]

Does everyone realize that Baffert's lawyer has all but said that when they are finished with the rest of the ongoing testing it will show that the betamethasone in Medina Spirit's blood came from Otomax and not an injection?

They are now testing for the other compounds found in Otomax. If they are present it will strongly suggest Otomax was the source of the positive. The horse will still get disqualified, but he'll have a pretty good case for a reduction in the suspension because these rules are in place to prevent injection of betamethasone into joints and not to prevent or treat skin problems.

It would not shock me if before it's over the suspension is reduced. Just be ready for it.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by alhattab

I wonder why Drazin felt the need to make a statement. Curious to see how the Racing Commission/State reacts to this. Monmouth gets $7.5M in state funding and the state flexed is muscle on 2019 Haskell Day with the heat

It's a publicity stunt. As they say...the only bad publicity is NO publicity.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/st...16532199825408

Same position as Monmouth, without the "friend of Monmouth" commentary

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/st...16532199825408

I find it hard to believe that Del Mar is going to ban Baffert for two years.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Does everyone realize that Baffert's lawyer has all but said that when they are finished with the rest of the ongoing testing it will show that the betamethasone in Medina Spirit's blood came from Otomax and not an injection?

They are now testing for the other compounds found in Otomax. If they are present it will strongly suggest Otomax was the source of the positive. The horse will still get disqualified, but he'll have a pretty good case for a reduction in the suspension because these rules are in place to prevent injection of betamethasone into joints and not to prevent or treat skin problems.

It would not shock me if before it's over the suspension is reduced. Just be ready for it.

That's what his lawyers are trying but it's hard to believe that the track vet, who had to sign off on all treatments to every horse entered in the Derby and Oaks, would have approved the Otomax ointment.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Does everyone realize that Baffert's lawyer has all but said that when they are finished with the rest of the ongoing testing it will show that the betamethasone in Medina Spirit's blood came from Otomax and not an injection?

They are now testing for the other compounds found in Otomax. If they are present it will strongly suggest Otomax was the source of the positive. The horse will still get disqualified, but he'll have a pretty good case for a reduction in the suspension because these rules are in place to prevent injection of betamethasone into joints and not to prevent or treat skin problems.

It would not shock me if before it's over the suspension is reduced. Just be ready for it.

Do we even know they were using the Otomax on this horse? There would have to have been a medical record, somebody would have to testify they applied it prior to the race... This should have been done already, so they should know if this is a viable defense.

If Otomax was the source of the Betamehtasone, does it matter? I mean the attorney states that the rule is in place to prevent the injection but is that a legal defense for violating the rules. I am hardly an attorney, I am sure Dilanesp can add some insight on this (maybe he has I have not read this entire thread), but the attorney admitted in the Cnn interview that Baffert knew the rules, so does it matter? If you break the rules you break the rules, no? If the man had a picture perfect record and can prove that he had been using the Otomax, I would say cut him some slack, but as we know this is not the case.

Also found it amusing that the attorney is proud of the fact that Baffert has only been suspended twice, as if that is something to be proud of and as if who he is did not play a part in him not being suspended many more times.


My opinion fwiw, dishonest people generally don't change. Maybe a few find God and legitimately change, but for the most part if you are dishonest, you generally will remain dishonest unless you are scared straight (which obviously hasn't happened with Baffert). Some of the same guys that were pumping drugs into harness horses in Southern California back when I was going in the 1980's are still pumping them with drugs up to 40 years later (JMO) in other venues.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by pandy

I find it hard to believe that Del Mar is going to ban Baffert for two years.

Max KHRC can give is 6 months from what I'm told. I think they'll give him the MAX

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by pandy

That's what his lawyers are trying but it's hard to believe that the track vet, who had to sign off on all treatments to every horse entered in the Derby and Oaks, would have approved the Otomax ointment.

I believe I heard his lawyer say the vet did approve the Otomax.

If the other compounds are in the horse's blood I think there's little question they were using it and some betamethasone probably also got into his blood. Otherwise, how/why were the other compounds in his blood?

However, you could ask whether they injected the betamethasone and also used the Otomax. The use of Otomax and it potentially causing a positive does not totally eliminate the possibility he also injected betamethasone knowing the Otomax would be his cover story "just in case".

We could also conclude the most logical thing. He's a trainer that's looking for any edge he can get but he's reckless in doing it and sometimes takes risks with the horse's heath or gets a positive because of it. But this time he's telling the truth.

The horse is getting DQ'd and he's getting suspended, but I don't think we know the final result yet.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Do we even know they were using the Otomax on this horse? There would have to have been a medical record, somebody would have to testify they applied it prior to the race... This should have been done already, so they should know if this is a viable defense.

If Otomax was the source of the Betamehtasone, does it matter? I mean the attorney states that the rule is in place to prevent the injection but is that a legal defense for violating the rules. I am hardly an attorney, I am sure Dilanesp can add some insight on this (maybe he has I have not read this entire thread), but the attorney admitted in the Cnn interview that Baffert knew the rules, so does it matter? If you break the rules you break the rules, no? If the man had a picture perfect record and can prove that he had been using the Otomax, I would say cut him some slack, but as we know this is not the case.

Also found it amusing that the attorney is proud of the fact that Baffert has only been suspended twice, as if that is something to be proud of and as if who he is did not play a part in him not being suspended many more times.

When listening to lawyers in horse racing cases, you need to always be aware of the difference between the law and things that sometimes sway racing commissions and tracks.

Under the law, Baffert is basically screwed. Churchill has the right to bar him from their races, and any other track where he has had a drug violation can bar him too. (In California, it may be the case that a track can't bar him for conduct that occurred entirely at another track, but if that rule exists, it doesn't necessarily apply outside California.)

Similarly, the KHRC has the right to impose any suspension up to a lifetime ban based on the positive test of both splits of the sample. They aren't required to test for other drugs, aren't required to consider mitigating evidence, and aren't even required to hold a hearing first (though one would need to be held immediately after the suspension if it wasn't held before). And any KHRC suspension will be honored nationwide.

Baffert's lawyers' arguments are not about the law, at all. Under the law he can literally be kicked out of the sport. Rather, they are about appealing to the pro-trainer and pro-Baffert orientation of regulators, by giving them something to say if they do reduce the punishment.