Future Hall Of Fame Driver, Lol - Page 3 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

The Inside Scoop · 12-01-2014, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

I don't base my personal driver rankings just on the usual criteria. I look for drivers that win with horses that do not have good speed figures, or do not look like solid contenders on paper. Any driver can win a high percentage with the Burke horses. At the Meadowlands this year, Andrew McCarthy did very well and rarely had a solid contender. It's a lot harder to win with one of the slowest horses in the race than with the fastest horse in the race. It takes talent.

Pandy

If you think that Yannick can only win with Burke horses thats comical. I will take Yannick first time drive on a horse (other then Burkes) any day of the week. I have cashed many nice tickets this year off of that angle, especially at Mohawk when he comes up to drive. There is not a driver around that can get one off the gait like he can. He gets horses ready after the post parade by getting them on the bit if they are the lazy type. Many a lazy horse that showed no gait speed has rocketed to the front and won when Yannick jumps on.

pandy · 12-01-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Inside Scoop

Pandy

If you think that Yannick can only win with Burke horses thats comical. I will take Yannick first time drive on a horse (other then Burkes) any day of the week. I have cashed many nice tickets this year off of that angle, especially at Mohawk when he comes up to drive. There is not a driver around that can get one off the gait like he can. He gets horses ready after the post parade by getting them on the bit if they are the lazy type. Many a lazy horse that showed no gait speed has rocketed to the front and won when Yannick jumps on.

Oh, no, I have great respect for Yannick. In fact, years ago when he first started driving at the Meadowlands I wrote in my column many times that he was the best driver of trotters in the sport and lethal first time on a trotter. He wins with many poorly gaited trotters.

The difference between the top drivers and many other successful drivers is not as much as most people think. A lot of it is politics, personality, luck. Driving horses is not like baseball. In baseball, there are no :250 hitters that are capable of hitting :300. In harness racing, there are drivers who would immediately become superstars if someone like Burke decided to use them, or if they got one lucky break. Hall of Fame jockey Jerry Bailey has said that his career took off after he got the ride on the great Cigar. Anyone could have won with Cigar, but that put Bailey in the public spotlight and trainers started to use him more.

People don't understand that some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living. When I interviewed McCarthy last year, he told me that he goes home (to Australia) every December and he used to stay there until March. Last year he came back early to drive at the Meadowlands. He also told me that he will rarely drive double headers because he wants to have a life and he wants to spend time with his family.

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen. Horses literally went a second to two seconds faster for him and he didn't even use the whip heavily. Sports Illustrated did a big article with him. I did a two part, long interview with him which was published in Sports Eye. We tried to figure out why horses went faster for him. He got horses out of the gate better than Yannick.

Walter Case, Jr. was also better than any driver driving today, and also a master gate driver. Herve Filion, in his prime, was also better than any of the current drivers. These guys consistently won easily with horses that looked horrible on paper.

The Inside Scoop · 12-01-2014, 04:51 PM

I respectfully disagree with the comment that many drivers could become a top dog if they attached themselves to a top barn. Talents like Gingras, Miller, Pierce, Brennan, Sears and Campbell all have rose to the top at The Meadowlands, driving for a variety of trainers. When you consistently win races and also put horses in position to win, owners and trainers notice this and want to use guys like that.

pandy · 12-01-2014, 04:56 PM

I wouldn't knock any of them, they earned it. But, there is quite a bit of luck involved. As I said, it's not like other sports. These drivers need the horses.

cecil127 · 12-01-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living

luc ouellette

RaceTrackDaddy · 12-01-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

Oh, no, I have great respect for Yannick. In fact, years ago when he first started driving at the Meadowlands I wrote in my column many times that he was the best driver of trotters in the sport and lethal first time on a trotter. He wins with many poorly gaited trotters.

The difference between the top drivers and many other successful drivers is not as much as most people think. A lot of it is politics, personality, luck. Driving horses is not like baseball. In baseball, there are no :250 hitters that are capable of hitting :300. In harness racing, there are drivers who would immediately become superstars if someone like Burke decided to use them, or if they got one lucky break. Hall of Fame jockey Jerry Bailey has said that his career took off after he got the ride on the great Cigar. Anyone could have won with Cigar, but that put Bailey in the public spotlight and trainers started to use him more.

People don't understand that some of the drivers don't want to be superstars, they just want to make a living. When I interviewed McCarthy last year, he told me that he goes home (to Australia) every December and he used to stay there until March. Last year he came back early to drive at the Meadowlands. He also told me that he will rarely drive double headers because he wants to have a life and he wants to spend time with his family.

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen. Horses literally went a second to two seconds faster for him and he didn't even use the whip heavily. Sports Illustrated did a big article with him. I did a two part, long interview with him which was published in Sports Eye. We tried to figure out why horses went faster for him. He got horses out of the gate better than Yannick.

Walter Case, Jr. was also better than any driver driving today, and also a master gate driver. Herve Filion, in his prime, was also better than any of the current drivers. These guys consistently won easily with horses that looked horrible on paper.

There was one that probably would have become the best driver of all time but alas he was taken all too soon. Peter Haughton, from the time he first got in the bike it was apparent that he was born to drive. Here is an interview of him (think it was at Brandywine) a year before of his passing. Think he was 25 when he left us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlt6QU7xcwI

pandy · 12-01-2014, 06:37 PM

William Haughton was one of the best I've ever seen, very smart strategist.
It's too bad we never got to see more of Peter.

arno · 12-01-2014, 07:04 PM

Nice to see Sonsam mentioned by Peter. Sholty's brush with Sonsam in the Meadowlands Pace in 1979 is still the greatest move I have ever seen in harness racing. Similar to Valenzuela's move with Arazi in the Breeder's Cup Juvenile 10 years after Sonsam.

I wonder how the other drivers felt when Peter said he had to start from the bottom? He was driving the likes of Armbro Omaha at 20. I don't think Carmine was driving that kind of stock at Freehold when he was 20 nor Filion in Quebec or Insko in Illinois.

We will never know how good Peter would have been but I could ask the same question about Shelly Goudreau who I thought was just as good if not better than Peter.

pandy · 12-01-2014, 07:07 PM

I agree about Sonsam. That was the most exciting move I've ever seen in a major harness racing stakes race, and it was rare for the Meadowlands since most of the drivers waited until the stretch.

Sea Biscuit · 12-02-2014, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arno

Nice to see Sonsam mentioned by Peter. Sholty's brush with Sonsam in the Meadowlands Pace in 1979 is still the greatest move I have ever seen in harness racing. Similar to Valenzuela's move with Arazi in the Breeder's Cup Juvenile 10 years after Sonsam.

Here is the video replay of Sonsam winning the '79 Meds pace

Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ldwDLKrEnFc

Sea Biscuit · 12-02-2014, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

Yannick's a great driver when compared to the current drivers but in my opinion there isn't a driver in the sport that's as good as Carmine Abbatiello was, he was the most gifted driver I've ever seen.

Here is a nice article on the man they loved to hate: Carmine Abbatello

http://www.si.com/vault/1981/08/10/8...-in-that-sulky

pandy · 12-02-2014, 08:25 AM

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.

The Inside Scoop · 12-02-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.

I do not recall ever saying I would not bet Stratton. My only comment regarding him was his UDRS as one of the top 30 drivers and stating that he would not be on anyones top drivers lists when talking the upper echelon. It was Carlson I said I would not bet. I actually like betting Stratton when hes on something that I think is live. Yonkers is a track that does not get much of my wagering dollar unless I have a very strong opinion on a horse that has some value.

pandy · 12-02-2014, 04:21 PM

I just interviewed Carlson today. He is the 15th leading driver in North America with over 5 million in earnings (4th at Yonkers behind Bartlett, Sears, Brennan). I don't see what UDRS has to do with anything, unless you bet to show.

baconswitchfarm · 12-02-2014, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy

Stratton won 5 at Yonkers last night, no favorites, really big night for him. Stratton is one of the guys that Inside Scoop said he wouldn't bet. But, as I said, is's all about the horses. This was a classic example. Sears wasn't there last night, probably taking a year end vacation. With Sears out, Stratton gets better horses to drive, wins 5 races.

Stratton got to drive a couple gassed up Allard pieces when convicted race fixer Brad Forward didn't drive.