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Old 03-28-2023, 11:53 AM   #31
Half Smoke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I just studied this using a regression model with inputs of Beyer Figure last out, Class/Form figure last out, Running Style, Earning Box Consistency, Trainer (on a scale of 1-5 based on win%) and Jockey (on a scale of 1-5 based on win%).

The regression showed that Jockey was worth 12.4%.

That was higher than I was expecting.

That was just for dirt stakes races, but I doubt it would shift dramatically in other types of races.

Of course, you can do better than a scale of 1-5 by knowing the individual strengths and weaknesses of the riders and the circumstances, whether there was a favorable or unfavorable switch, the trainer/jockey combos and other things. Plus the more you add to your line the less each factor is worth. But for me, that was a pretty good start and enlightening. Hope that helps.

yes, that is helpful - thanks
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Old 03-28-2023, 02:04 PM   #32
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It would be an interesting study to see how top jockey win percentages compare to top jockey/trainer combination where they have a higher strike rate as a team and see if the added trainer angle provided a better statistic percentage or not. Any comments?
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Old 03-28-2023, 03:58 PM   #33
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again this is anecdotal - no hard stats -

but I tend to believe that if a jock has been put back on a horse that he and the horse did well on last time out - 1st or 2nd - that that is something to like - particularly if there is a very positive comment such as "surged"

even if he's not a high % jock

he knows how to get that horse to respond

.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:53 AM   #34
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:23 PM   #35
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jockey usually isn't a big deal.

if Irad Ortiz would've managed to make a matrix-like perfect last move with your 3/1 closer in the original post's scenario, then Miguel Vasquez probably sits a vaguely similar trip and moves a little sooner, but both hit the board.

got a unique situation in Laurel. Rodriguez is so much better he's doing things that others can't.

In some of these races, Rodriguez is the only jock with the magic, and the others are like NPC Non Player Characters.

In the first replay I posted he uses every inch of the 7 furlong race aboard Mavilus (shout outs to my homeboy, the great Billy Crystal! "Mavilus" so smooth).

this 2nd replay posted he's on Only Child 1/16/23
he's 11/1 because the form isn't great relative to the field.
it's a 2-turn dirt race, 9 furlongs, and Jaime Rodriguez uses the early speed and the inside draw to his advantage.
Grabs the lead with a balance of aggression and staying within the 's scope of performance.
This has an effect on the entire field, because the good horses are now forced to cede the early position, (or to use horse or go wide).
A smooth professional move, and he actually may even Win the race right there, if not for a 30/1 bum attempting to press him.

Good move by JR, but I'm selecting races to illustrate the whole jockey picture there and attempt to teach how it can be more of an impact than a normal generic how much do a jockey impact? situation.


So he established a strong beginning to put an 11/1 into contention... Then the jock of the has a perfect trip and with the better horse should pass the and probably win if no one else comes up.
So nice start by Rodriguez to run about third w/ an 11/1 shot.


Rewind a touch on the backstretch after the first turn. - As soon as the first turn is over, the lower odds horses/jockeys should be advancing as much as possible without losing control.
1st Turn was the barrier, the factor that prevented the good horses from getting up near the lead in striking range (because you lose ground and energy trying to pass 11/1 and 30/1 shots who have nothing to lose), but once that turn is over, you can't just accept the bad position in a coma, you have to go take it back. As long as you do it before the 2nd turn, you are good to make a middle move for position, and Laurel colony did not show this happening.

You then have MORE factors that help J Rod (not crazy about calling every Rodriguez a "Rod", but it's popular and if you are reading this, you may be a lowest common denominator type of guy)(, or maybe not and you appreciate what I'm sharing)...
You've got a strung-out field which usually means that the pace will be relatively fair to mid-pack and stalking types. However, even though it's strung out, the race still turned out to be relatively forward flow favoring..

the stretched out field is not just an honest pace here, it's very much because of the lack of awareness of the rival jockeys to move up contending horses as soon as the 1st-Turn was cleared. Also has to do with some of the poor performances of the lower-priced horses in here.
All this stuff works together.

Back to the Uncommon Valor. He has the winning position on the back stretch. He will go on to win this race in an alternate reality, but here, his jockey goes from a 'sit tight!' position and starts subtracting lengths like crazy because of mistakes.
Premature Move - Humphrey starts a drive BEFORE the 2nd turn here . He's CLUELESS as to what is in front of him. Ugly to see this error.
The other fkup is that in his desperation to move way before he should, he also swings wide and loses significant ground.
Then the horse displays a slight flaw of swapping leads for a stride (probably magnified because he's being asked to do some running, as opposed to a projected efficient ride where he just sits behind the leaders and mows them down once straightened into the stretch run).

So the is a loser now and we've reached the stretch.
I wouldn't post this video had the 8 gotten a good ride (he wins).

Now we're in the stretch and Rodriguez is AGAIN exaggerated in his talent, because no good horses are firing. One long shot horse is firing, the Love Machine.
has all the momentum and looks like he'll win, but Rodriguez (who has been lugging out in order to herd the who never showed up) has a combination of having saved a tiny bit of horse, and also knowing the wire and the timing required.
wins a close photo and only those couple of strides would win, as goes by.
Mildly impressive is that the segmented replays show the to have the momentum, but if you watch the race, the clearly has the momentum. Was a decent last effort by Rodriguez to pull of this illusion.

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Old 03-30-2023, 03:26 PM   #36
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Not Jaime Rodriguez,
but, if you understood how the in the previous (only child race vs. Uncommon Valor/love macine etc..) highlight that Uncommon Valor was much much the best, but lost because of jockey incompetence, -then you get a reward.

in this race on 2/5/23

Love machine is somehow LOWER ODDS than Uncommon Valor - it's the next race for both lol and the market thinks Love Machine is somehow better? It's a clear misunderstanding of the previous race, so the players who understand the game basically get zero takeout on an Uncommon Valor bet.

In this race, Humphrey is off Uncommon Valor, and the horse is ridden well for the pace scenario.

The Despight Odds turns in arguable the best performance, but is senselessly ridden as if this race wasn't at the 1M distance of Laurel (which uses the 2nd finish line, so the stretch is longer and can be grueling)

The EASILY contends today, and even happens to win. '

it's an example related to the J ROD highlight, because if you know the game and could see and understand that race on 1/16 w/ Only Child and could see how Uncommon Valor was much the best that day, in that field, - then you would be giddy seeing that Love Machine was somehow LOWER! odds than Uncommon Valor. You just saw them face off 1 race ago. You just saw how Uncommon Valor was lengths better than Love Machine.

things go well, and you get 5/1 on a known contender, at zero% takeout. (see lower tweet to watch the 2/5 race)



And if you understood the previous two races, you get Despite Odds as a winner in his next outing (march 3), although it's only a $4.60 winner, it could be useful.
This game is DIFFICULT, but if you understand stuff that is happening, you can sometimes notice that the market is silly in specific races.
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 03-30-2023 at 03:31 PM.
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