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Old 05-07-2017, 03:21 PM   #1
bugboy
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whales?

someone please tell me what is a "whale" in horse racing?
friend says its a person or group that bets hundereds on certain races where they feel is a "lock" no matter what the odds are. it they can double their wager, that's a bet.

thanks in advance.....frank
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:01 PM   #2
castaway01
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http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ghlight=whales

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ghlight=whales
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:13 PM   #3
theiman
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Perhaps Chuck Kaiton could best describe a Whale(r).
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:30 PM   #4
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more of a myth than a reality, however there are a few syndicates around. It's only a bad when they are on the same horse that you are on.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:02 PM   #5
bugboy
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whales

thanks castaway for those links..
this will give me plenty of reading tonight.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:31 PM   #6
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more of a myth than a reality, however there are a few syndicates around. It's only a bad when they are on the same horse that you are on.

The whales are not "syndicates."

"Syndicate" implies a bunch of guys got together and pooled resources. Not true.

They are typically single owner corporations (although there may be partners who hold minor position), with a lot of employees. (The smallest is reputed to have 45 employees and the largest 175.)

There are 6 that I am aware of that wager upwards of $100m each.

Probably another 50-75 that wager between $25m and $100m, but that is shear guesswork on my part.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:48 PM   #7
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The whales are not "syndicates."

"Syndicate" implies a bunch of guys got together and pooled resources. Not true.

They are typically single owner corporations (although there may be partners who hold minor position), with a lot of employees. (The smallest is reputed to have 45 employees and the largest 175.)

There are 6 that I am aware of that wager upwards of $100m each.

Probably another 50-75 that wager between $25m and $100m, but that is shear guesswork on my part.
What do their wagering tickets look like...?
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:51 PM   #8
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What do their wagering tickets look like...?
They look like ours...but they have more numbers printed on them.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:27 PM   #9
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They look like ours...but they have more numbers printed on them.
No, Thask...it is a simple question with a very complex answer...one could reply " How the hell do I know, I am not a Whale..."

I'm sure there is method in their madness...unlike mine..

What I am asking in a veiled fashion, is the nature of their betting structures and methods for anyone who might know something about those...

Are they win bettors...vertical or horizontal players...rebate junkies or arbitrage mongers...is pool scooping their primary tactic, etc...
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:12 AM   #10
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Churn would be their game. If Dave's numbers are reliable, we're talking about 25-50% of annual handle in North America.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:18 AM   #11
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Churn would be their game. If Dave's numbers are reliable, we're talking about 25-50% of annual handle in North America.
How does churn create profit...unless is relies on a small rebate positive that overcomes take and a miniscule ROI...?
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:35 AM   #12
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How does churn create profit...unless is relies on a small rebate positive that overcomes take and a miniscule ROI...?
1.01 on $10M bet is a $100K profit. Change small to large in your rebate comment.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:39 AM   #13
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1.01 on $10M bet is a $100K profit. Change small to large in your rebate comment.
How does a 10 Million bet get through the windows...?

What is the nature of the transactions taking place...ADW's involved...How does the IRS get involved in these large transactions....? Are these cash transactions....Is there mandatory reporting over certain limits say $10,000 like at the banks...? How is money laundering monitored...?

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Old 05-08-2017, 12:44 AM   #14
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$200 into 50,000 different pools/combinations, or a similar ratio. Takes time, and lots of assistance, to bet $10M.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:51 AM   #15
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$200 into 50,000 different pools/combinations, or a similar ratio. Takes time, and lots of assistance, to bet $10M.
The devil is in the details of how this is really accomplished...
What are the specific methods, goals...? You would need a full time accountant and tax person on your employee list...$200 into 50,000 different pools...? Why do this...? for what reason...?

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