Religion III

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

There is no universe without Time. Also, if the universe were eternal, there couldn't be any Change in it it; for whatever is eternal must by nature be pure existence. And this in turn implies , it must be immutable. Yet, we see all kinds of things in this universe go in and out of existence. This violates the Law of Identity!

There is no infinite regress with God because he is eternal and immutable. He is the Uncaused Cause who is the Final Cause of all things. He is the Unmoved Mover who ultimately causes all things to move (change).

You attempt to prove your version of god by re-defining god in your own minuscule boxcarian human terms.

"God is first since I define god as first"

FYI, the cyclic, oscillating theory of western cosmology, similar to the immense cyclic conception of the universe, of Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, has eclipsed your frail limited dark middle ages pre-16th century terminology.

Simply postulating an infinite "god" as preceding everything, cannot be supported logically by blabbing mindlessly over and over again,.....

"god comes first" because "I and the bible say so"

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You attempt to prove your version of god by re-defining god in your own minuscule boxcarian human terms.

"God is first since I define god as first"

FYI, the cyclic, oscillating theory of western cosmology, similar to the immense cyclic conception of the universe, of Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, has eclipsed your frail limited dark middle ages pre-16th century terminology.

Simply postulating an infinite "god" as preceding everything, cannot be supported logically by blabbing mindlessly over and over again,.....

"god comes first" because "I and the bible say so"

Actually, God is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

And for your info there can be no infinite regression with an eternal being. Brush up on the Law of Causation, which in essence says: Whatever has come to be must have a cause." Since God has never come to be, he has no cause.

Live it, love it and learn it.

[hcap]

Live it, love it and learn it.

Or leave it.

....Repeating yourself over and over and over and over again, does not make it so.

Instead, try jumping up and down, with your hands over your eyes, on one foot, sticking out your toque, while repeating it to yourself over and over and over and over again. Maybe that will work.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Or leave it.

And as a consequence, perpetuate your unbounded ignorance.

....Repeating yourself over and over and over and over again, does not make it so.

Actually, it does, logically speaking. You don't know what infinite regression is and that this can only apply to entities that have come into existence.

Instead, try jumping up and down, with your hands over your eyes, on one foot, sticking out your toque, while repeating it to yourself over and over and over and over again. Maybe that will work.

You have described yourself perfectly. To you, ignorance is truly blissful.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're lying. I never claimed anything about the laws of physics.

What you said was ..

I have found no evidence of anyone developing a "Ricther"-type scale to measure these attributes.

And my comment about the absence of evidence to date...

And these together imply that the laws of physics change. Ergo, you said something about the laws of physics.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by hcap

Maybe it always was? There is no reason to assume time is also infinite.

Your "God-must-be-first" infinite regress, can not be logically supported.

As I demonstrated in my two recent posts on Aquinas' First Argument.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yet, we see all kinds of things in this universe go in and out of existence.

Isn't that in Lawrence Krauss's book A Universe From Nothing? Don't apologists disagree with Krauss?

Originally Posted by boxcar

He is the Uncaused Cause who is the Final Cause of all things. He is the Unmoved Mover who ultimately causes all things to move (change).

Not according to Newton's Laws. Go back and read #3297 and #3327.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by hcap

....Repeating yourself over and over and over and over again, does not make it so.

boxcar hasn't figured that out yet. I doubt he ever will. He believes in infinite regress when it suits his purpose.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Actor

boxcar hasn't figured that out yet. I doubt he ever will. He believes in infinite regress when it suits his purpose.

He has always been stuck in a parochial pre-17th century theology and cosmology.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What you said was ..



And these together imply that the laws of physics change. Ergo, you said something about the laws of physics.

And what I said had nothing to do with the laws of physics. Physics has to do with physical realities, not non-physical reality.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Isn't that in Lawrence Krauss's book A Universe From Nothing? Don't apologists disagree with Krauss?

Not according to Newton's Laws. Go back and read #3297 and #3327.

Yeah...what does Newton's Laws say: That this finite universe just popped into existence all by itself once upon a time? That Nothing created Something? Is this the "scientific" fairy tale?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

As I demonstrated in my two recent posts on Aquinas' First Argument.

You haven't demonstrated anything! Infinite regress has to with finite entities ONLY! Since God is not finite -- since he's eternal -- since his very essence is pure existence, he was never caused. That which is eternal is uncaused. Period!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You haven't demonstrated anything! Infinite regress has to with finite entities ONLY! Since God is not finite -- since he's eternal -- since his very essence is pure existence, he was never caused. That which is eternal is uncaused. Period!

An infinite regress can deal with any set of concepts. Do you have any prior source exempting your limited version of "god"?

Period.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress

An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P1 requires the support of proposition P2, the truth of proposition P2 requires the support of proposition P3, and so on, ad infinitum.

Distinction is made between infinite regresses that are "vicious" and those that are not.


Infinite regress

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

An infinite regress can deal with any set of concepts. Do you have any prior source exempting your limited version of "god"?

Period.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress

An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P1 requires the support of proposition P2, the truth of proposition P2 requires the support of proposition P3, and so on, ad infinitum.

Distinction is made between infinite regresses that are "vicious" and those that are not.


Infinite regress

You are extremely dense! There is no series of propositions in THE one and only proposition: God IS eternal.

There is a reason, Humpty, why God is called the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You are extremely dense! There is no series of propositions in THE one and only proposition: God IS eternal.

There is a reason, Humpty, why God is called the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

You are continuing to jump up and own on one foot, fingers in your ears, toque sticking out, endlessly repeating yourself.

You can not logically support your supposition by simply defining your "god" as coming first.