Subtly Great and Terrible Rides

[EMD4ME]

Let me preface that I am not starting this thread out of sour grapes. I am starting it due to a painful understanding that this game has become almost unplayable due to the atrociously inconsistent, unprepared and insanely stupid rides that I am seeing on a daily and race by race basis.

I take notes on every horse and every race at NYRA and sometimes other tracks. I don't bet every race. I am not a 'jockey complainer' but my frustration has reached a point where I, a lifelong horse racing lover, feel like I can't make a wager because the pinhead OR stiff job artist will ruin the wager. Most are incompetent, so let's not go down the stiff job route.

Most terrible rides are by the "top jocks" who supposedly are so damn good. (let me also state that I don't bet jockeys, that's a small part of my selection process. If your name is not Ramón, I know as fact, that you suck, so it makes little difference who you are).

Here's a few examples:

http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/...0141129/7/pan/

11/29/14 race 7 Aqueduct, Cigar Mile day. Pulling G's. Gold rail day, speed is golden. Track is BIASED. The legendary ( ) Joel Rosario is riding the odds on chalk. He is on the lead, on the rail, he is full of horse and his OUTSIDE pace counterpart is in allllllllllll out drive. His pace counterpart is obviously dead, in terms of winning. At the 5/16, he drifts wide on purpose. He herds out a totally dead horse at the 1/4 and leaves the GOLD RAIL open. As he leaves the GOOOOOLD rail, of course, the pocket sitting 2 horse, Soldier In the Rain, beats him by a blond hair up the VACATED RAIL at the wire.

How stupid can Rosario be? Did he not watch the first 6 races on the card???

Did he not study the pp's of his foes before the race?

Did he not look to his right at all during the running of the race (to see that his NEED THE LEAD AND DIDN'T GET IT, FOE WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING BY HIM & BY THE WAY, HIS HORSE WAS UNDER A CORNELIO LOCK & was loaded throughout the race)????

It was obvious that if he ever lost that race, it would be by a pocket mover, not by the horse to his outside.

How ironic, the knumbskull won in the very next race gold rail to wire.....

That one example shows me just how stupid & unprepared Rosario was for that race.

Next race.....

I will utilize an example of a jock who didn't cost his mount a placing but almost did.

Race 8
http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/videos/...0141129/8/pan/

Paco Lopez. Another well bet supposed good jock. He is sitting pocket 1 race after the first example. The winner is showing no signs of slowing down. If anything the eventual third place finisher looks to 'chase and tire' on the far turn. His horse is under an all out drive around the far turn but not gaining. This genius decides he wants to vacate the gold rail at the 5/16's, lose valuable ground 3 wide against the gold rail and drawing away leader. He almost blew second because of his insanely stupid decision. Why not just stay on the rail, under the chaser, save every inch, follow the leader and be a clear second? Why almost blow second in a graded race!???????

I have literally 2 dozen more, just from the past 5 racing days. Darting to dead rails proactively, vacating gold rails as if the rail HAS EBOLA, not sending with the lone speed on a gold rail/speed biased day etc.

You can easily say, take notes and bet back. Yes, you can. What would you say if I told you that SOME OF these WERE PLAYBACKS (DERIVED off asinine rides)???

You want to KNOW why handle might be down? Try watching Castellano, Rosario, Ortiz (both of them) and alllllll the other big name jockeys ride as if they were just quantum leaped (remember that show-if not the joke is wasted) into the body of a pinhead jockey at the starting gate ....

That'll drive handle down.

[bello]

Precisely why the inner track is so appealing. You always have a couple of hungry apprentices who may be right out of jocks school and they will hug the rail, typically a smart thing to do on the inner while some of the more race worn journeymen will just go out and ride,while wondering why in the hell they are stuck in freezing New York for the winter.

[EMD4ME]

Quite frankly, I prefer a no name jock on my horses. Yes, I study jockey/trainer combos for 'intent' and live combos but apples being apples & wagers being made on horses vs horses if you're name is not Ramón, all you can do is snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. More often, wayyyyyyy more often, big name jocks blow a race vs doing something intelligent and actually winning a race

[EMD4ME]

The Aqueduct fall meet had SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO many outside bias days. I loved it. However, every single jock in the colony, at times, did not have a single clue that the rail was dead & that made me sick. I swear, you couldn't count on one pin head to actually purposely stay off the rail consistently when the bias was in play.

I loved listening to Andy critiquing these pin heads (nicely) but when your pocket is hurt or a score is snatched away by sheer and utter stupidity it's infuriating.

[Stillriledup]

This post made my night, i ALMOST started a post similar to this about a couple rides yesterday that got steam to come out of my head.

Needless to say, lost money on both of these rides.

The Great Victor EsPINosa riding Prospector Alley at DMR (Race 5 Nov 30), decides to "quarter horse" him to the lead even though this horse has been ridden as a one move closer in his previous races. He rushes the horse to the lead, battles with some bomb, and makes Mike Smith look good again on an inferior horse, not sure what the guy was thinking, but when you take a horse out of his game like that, i'm not sure what you are going to accomplish.

In the 4th race yesterday at GG the GREAT Isias Enriquez riding Bobbylouie rode a horrendous race. This was a 25-1 shot who has some "one move" talent, if she's ridden conservatively and saves ground on both turns, she can hit underneath in the tri or super, it was only a 6 horse field, so she didnt have to do much to suck up for 3rd or 4th. What does the guy do? He rushes her into the pace down the backstretch battling and fades and gets beat a small-ish margin for 4th, if this horse was ridden conservatively like a 25-1 should be ridden, she's at least 4th in here and maybe even higher. Not sure where the guy was going, had no clue of his odds or the style of the horse, just rode like a jackass.

And lastly, i'm going to be mildly critical of Mario Guiterrez's ride on Mr Bowling in the Berkeley Hcp at GG on Nov 30th (Race 7). I handicapped this race and thought "if Mr Bowling is given a conservative ride and makes one move after saving ground on both turns, he might be able to sneak into the tri or super. So, the guy rode well early, he got the horse out of the gate and into a great ground saving spot inside early....but into the far turn, he just couldn't wait to lose ground on the turn and send the horse like there was 70 yards left in the race. Bowling was outclassed, he wasn't ever going to win this race unless he was ridden super conservatively and tried to get lucky, the guy rode as if he was 8-5.......if you're riding 10-1s like 8-5s and you're really 10-1 and not just 10-1 by mistake, you get exposed as an idiot and you cost your owners and bettors board spots and money.

Too many jocks just have no clue of their odds and how longshots need to be ridden and a lot of these guys ride as if they have no idea as to the context of their horse in that particular race.

Another thing that bugs me is how 99% of the time, jocks don't make moves to hinder (legally) other runners. For example, if there's a 2-5 shot speed horse from post 1 and that horse breaks a bit slow and the 2 horse outbreaks him in the first few strides, that jock won't move over to the inside, he will stay in the 2 lane and permit the post 1 rider to move inside of him. Jocks aren't smart enough to think "the horse i have to beat broke slow, let me get over and kick some dirt in his face and box him in".

If a jock "gets over" on the slow-ish breaking chalk, its by accident, these guys aren't smart enough to do something like that on purpose.

[EMD4ME]

Thanks for the reply. Appreciated all aspects of it. You just touched upon one major type of subtly bad ride that INFURIATES me. Gold rail, speed track. 2 speeds in positions 1 & 6. PP 1 gets left. PP 6 has a 3 length lead from the gate. Scarecrow , in a coma, midget brain from hell on the 6 doesn't realize 1) how the track is playing 2) who the competition is 3) what the pace scenario is etc. He leaves the rail open on the backstretch, the rail horse pushes up on the gold rail, they either duel and die or the rail horse wires.

It's beyond maddening and makes me not want to bet.

I'm not a Ramón homer but the guy was a prepared super intelligent genius. He never and I mean ever made those mistakes. You give me 10 replays, I'll show you 8 mistakes that Irad, Javier, Cornelio, Joel and John make.

It's insane how stupid they are.

Half glass full, and I will take heat for this, they are countless horseplayers who swear by these brain dead pin heads. Thank god they are wagering money and keep the pools somewhat afloat with value.

[EMD4ME]

SRU, let me also say this. The examples you gave are off longshots who need a very good trip to hit the board. Those are infuriating as they cost us supers, triples, exactas, sometimes pick whatevers. What kills me is having a tons the best horse lose me a pick 6 or pick 5 because a pin head snatches defeat, in the true meaning of the phrase, from the jaws of victory. It's maddening.

[Tom]

Subtly bad rides?
How about idiot-rides?
We have a lot of jockeys who flat out stink.
The pee brains who grab are worthless and probably betting on other horses.
Can't tell me anyone is that stupid for no reason.

Only the winning jock should get a cut of the purse, the rest get the ride fee.
That might make a few them wake up and realize this ain't dressage.

[arw629]

Watch back the 2014 Sam F Davis at Tampa in full....i had a $200 double which is a lot for me to the 1 horse Harpoon....Saez gave an absolutely atrocious ride, and I swear I won the photo....i saw this thread and instantly thought of this race....it's reliving a nightmare every time i watch it

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Thanks for the reply. Appreciated all aspects of it. You just touched upon one major type of subtly bad ride that INFURIATES me. Gold rail, speed track. 2 speeds in positions 1 & 6. PP 1 gets left. PP 6 has a 3 length lead from the gate. Scarecrow , in a coma, midget brain from hell on the 6 doesn't realize 1) how the track is playing 2) who the competition is 3) what the pace scenario is etc. He leaves the rail open on the backstretch, the rail horse pushes up on the gold rail, they either duel and die or the rail horse wires.

It's beyond maddening and makes me not want to bet.

I'm not a Ramón homer but the guy was a prepared super intelligent genius. He never and I mean ever made those mistakes. You give me 10 replays, I'll show you 8 mistakes that Irad, Javier, Cornelio, Joel and John make.

It's insane how stupid they are.

Half glass full, and I will take heat for this, they are countless horseplayers who swear by these brain dead pin heads. Thank god they are wagering money and keep the pools somewhat afloat with value.

Anyone who swears by these guys doesn't really watch the races carefully enough and if they do, they don't know what they're watching.

Jocks are so paranoid to be the pressee and not the presser, that they'll get in their own way and just not keep it simple.

You'll just get frustrated if you bank on these guys having a clue, even the "elite" riders look really bad on occasion.

It almost comes down to the notion that you can't take any horse under 10-1 for any reason, there are just too many things that can go wrong, too much idiocy, you need nice prices on all your runners because if you bet a bomb and the guy rides stupid, at least you were on a longshot.

Here's a link about Palace and how he was ridden poorly at a short price and then came back, with a new jock, was ridden the right way and cashed.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ghlight=palace

Here's a link about Lezcano riding Mr Speaker, the horse came back and he rode like i suggested he ride and the results were astounding. Its all here in black and white.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...hlight=lezcano

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

SRU, let me also say this. The examples you gave are off longshots who need a very good trip to hit the board. Those are infuriating as they cost us supers, triples, exactas, sometimes pick whatevers. What kills me is having a tons the best horse lose me a pick 6 or pick 5 because a pin head snatches defeat, in the true meaning of the phrase, from the jaws of victory. It's maddening.

I needed Mr Bowling for 3rd yesterday for the Tri, would have paid "stacks" he vacated and the horse who beat him for 3rd took his spot.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Tom

Subtly bad rides?
How about idiot-rides?
We have a lot of jockeys who flat out stink.
The pee brains who grab are worthless and probably betting on other horses.
Can't tell me anyone is that stupid for no reason.

Only the winning jock should get a cut of the purse, the rest get the ride fee.
That might make a few them wake up and realize this ain't dressage.

The idiot rides are clear as hell. They burn me as well. It's the subtle ones that burn me as people around me think I'm crazy for blowing a gasket cursing out the pinhead under my breath (or super loudly).

You're right in many cases, it is like an orchestra. JOCK A is the chosen one this race. Let's make a bit of cash money, orchestrate his win.

I truly believe that happened Saturday in Race 3. The twelve was a tail swishing, hates the whip donkey. Javier was on the chalk who's only question was :can he last a mile stretching out from 6F? Javier 's horse broke on top, YES IT WAS THE GOLD RAIL/SPEED BIAS DAY, he took a human anchor hold, also known as a "I'm stupid as hell Cornelio Lock" and choked his horse right out. All others were passive in the race. This after watching the 3 day outside closers trend flip to a wire job on the rail in race 1 (where no horse could make a move) and a 1st over PP 1 winner in race 2 (where the runner up was not hindered by a rail trip).

I truly believe that the pin heads orchestrated that one and cashed. No one can be that stupid............

Finally, how STTTTTUUUUPPPIDD, was Jose Ortiz on that wire jobber in that very same race?

That horse shies from the whip, shuts down and tail swishes when the whip is taken out and utilized.

He is coasting home at the 3/16, no one is making a dent. He whips the horse, the horse goes from the correct lead and cruising to the wrong lead. The horse's tail reaches the sky and he slows down. You would think, he'd put the whip away....... nope, pin head continues to whip.

They are unbelievably STUPID. Even when the fix is in AND/OR when they are trying to win.....

[Augenj]

Every race has a story to tell about jockey rides. They have a tough job and I respect that. However... (conspiracy here) I saw a ride at Delta Downs one night on a heavy favorite in a race that was being shown on TVG. I had no money on the race and was an impartial observer. I always watch the favorite when I don't care about the outcome.

At the 5/16 pole, there were two packs of horses separated by about 3 lengths, and all were setting down for the drive... except the heavy favorite who was the lead horse in the second pack. He "checked" according to the announcer and then "checked" again with his head jerking up even though he was free and clear of traffic. He finished out of the money with his ears pricked forward. One of the TVG analysts started to say something about it but cut himself off.

I've seen other rides on bigger tracks that were suspect too. However, we're in this game in spite of drugs and rides and chicanery. We have no choice but to accept things as they are or get stiff national regulation which is "big government" to some and therefore will never come about.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Augenj

Every race has a story to tell about jockey rides. They have a tough job and I respect that. However... (conspiracy here) I saw a ride at Delta Downs one night on a heavy favorite in a race that was being shown on TVG. I had no money on the race and was an impartial observer. I always watch the favorite when I don't care about the outcome.

At the 5/16 pole, there were two packs of horses separated by about 3 lengths, and all were setting down for the drive... except the heavy favorite who was the lead horse in the second pack. He "checked" according to the announcer and then "checked" again with his head jerking up even though he was free and clear of traffic. He finished out of the money with his ears pricked forward. One of the TVG analysts started to say something about it but cut himself off.

I've seen other rides on bigger tracks that were suspect too. However, we're in this game in spite of drugs and rides and chicanery. We have no choice but to accept things as they are or get stiff national regulation which is "big government" to some and therefore will never come about.

It's one of 2 things and I believe it's both things all the time.

1) they are incredibly stupid
2) many horses and races are no go's/stiffs and despite the purse money, there is more to be made via wagering.

[cj]

I honestly think a lot of guys riding these days would rather run 3rd or 4th than risk going for the win and running last.