A United Front for Arizona and All Horseplayers Against Arizona HB 2694

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by shanta

That is hard to do when you are watching millions of wagering dollars sucked out of the state and all you can do is stand by and watch it happen. We have no problem with ADW’s, all we’re asking for is to allow us to benefit from it like every other racetrack does in the US.

If someone wants to bet TUP through an ADW, like PTC or You BET, the ADW pays TUP around 5%. This is a fabulous deal for TUP. It's free money. Think about it, you don't have to provide any security, washrooms, electricity, seats, heat or air conditioning. Just shut up and take the 5%.

If you live in Arizona however, 5% is not enough, they want 20% and somehow because you reside there they are also owed a percentage of what you bet elsewhere. Not only that, but you can't do it from the convenience of your home , you have to go to them. If you live in Tucson and want to bet Saratoga over the Internet why do you owe TUP anything?

[highnote]

If TUP could generate $100 million in tax revenue per year for the state they would have a lot more clout.

But it's the Indian casino money that is doing all the talking.

The politicians say they fear an expansion of gambling.

Fearful of expansion of gambling my ass.

It's all about the money.

If you pay enough money you can expand your gambling empire all you want.

Ask the Connecticut legislature how they feel about expansion of gambling now that they've got the largest casino in the Northern Hemisphere filling the state coffers. Same scenario as AZ. Indians can take in billions in bets at their casinos and I can't even bet a horse race online because our legislature fears expansion of gambling, too.

If every horse player in CT was able to bet online their total handle generated would not be 1/1,000,000 of Foxwood and Mohegan Sun's daily handle.

And the states of CT and AZ fear that allowing horse players to legally bet online will expand gambling. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL lol:

Do any elected officials understand basic math?

[TomC]

Shanta:
And here I was, thinking TUP took time to send me a personal response to my e-mail! I got the exact same e-mail. They must just be copying and pasting it to everyone. Hopefully they are being sincere.
Maybe we can offer the Indians some more beads for their casinos.
Tom

[rrbauer]

I got the same response that everyone else is getting. Pissing on the ADW's and Horseplayers with threats of felony prosecution is really the way to get support for your position. How stupid are these people?

[shanta]

Followup letter from Mr. Johnson after a return letter from me. He has been made aware of this site/area and of the growing nationwide disgust with what is going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------Richard,

I understand that our takeout is high but what does that have to do with the ADW’s? They are the ones that keep it not Turf Paradise. All they do is give us a small return anywhere from 3% - 4.5% (which is split with the horsemen) on wagers placed on Turf Paradise races only, not the 20% -25% that we would get if the person wagered here at the track which we then split with our horsemen. On top of that we get nothing if the person wagers on a different track where as we would normally be getting around 15% which is also split with the Horsemen.

I do not deny that Turf Paradise helped push the legislation through. All of the racetracks in Arizona did. All I am asking you to do is understand why. It is no exaggeration that it is costing the Arizona Racing Industry millions of dollars. In any other state, if Youbet or TVG or any of the other ADW’s take a wager from a patron in the vicinity of their track (whether it be on their track or any other track) that ADW pays them what is called a source market fee. In Arizona, since it is illegal, we are not allowed to accept that fee. When we tried to work with the ADW’s to find a way around it we were told that we could lose our license if we did because we would be participating in an illegal act. Something had to be done. We then tried to legalize it. That project went up in flames almost as soon as it was thought up. What other course of action would you suggest? This is the best alternative. This will force the state to have to decide whether or not it is legal, and as I said before they will probably lose, then we will be able to get past this and everyone becomes a winner. But how can you expect us to just stand by and watch money leave the state that should be helping this industry.

Last, if I offended you by sending you the same letter that I sent most everyone else then I apologize. But I replied to the first e-mail I had and since almost all the other complaints were the same I sent the same letter because it addressed all the issues.

Again, I invite you to call me personally if you want.

Sincerely,

Dave Johnson


David Johnson
Vice President\ Assistant General Manager
Turf Paradise
1501 W. Bell Road
Phoenix, AZ 85023
602-375-6431
djohnson@turfparadise.net

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by shanta

All they do is give us a small return anywhere from 3% - 4.5% (which is split with the horsemen) on wagers placed on Turf Paradise races only, not the 20% -25% that we would get if the person wagered here at the track which we then split with our horsemen. On top of that we get nothing if the person wagers on a different track where as we would normally be getting around 15% which is also split with the Horsemen.

What is amazing is this guy says this stuff openly-without the slightest embarrassment. Somehow if a person lives in the state of Arizona and chooses to make a bet on Keeneland, Turf Paradise is entitled to 15% of his action. Turf Paradise is entitled to the 15% even if the bet is made on YouBet or PTC. They are entitled to it even though, they don't provide the website for Keeneland-pay for the signal-run the races-hot walk the horses after the race-or have even the remotest connection to the person placing the bet or the event. None-zip-nada. They deserve to be paid the same zero-zip-nada.

Today TUP had an attendance of 2596 and they bet $142,008 or an average of about $55 each.

Today TUP took in $829,949 in simulcast wagers from other states.

To be consistent Turf Paradise should withdraw its signal from the rest of the nation and live on the on track handle.

[prospector]

To be consistent Turf Paradise should withdraw its signal from the rest of the nation and live on the on track handle.well said...they won't get any money from me till this is fixed..

[rrbauer]

Hey Tex,
Did we have the big meeting with the Arizona guy?

[bob77713]

TUP just doesn't get it. I don't think they realize how much they disrupted my lifestyle. But they don't care, they have a history of pissing people off.

They wouldn't work with the Indian casinos. FT Mcdowell casinso had a million dollar racebook that was taking their signal. Harrahs AK-Chin had a brand new racebook ready to open, but TUP didn't want to pay them 4%. They wanted them to be an OTB like the sports bars in the state, just taking their signal for free for the additional foot trafic. When they got word that the tribes were negotiating a deal with a Nevada signal co. for 4%, they passed a law that no establishment can accept siganals whithin 55 miles of TUP. So the casinos closed the racebooks and added more slots.

I only have one thing to say to Jerry Simms, "What goes around, comes around". When you want us to vote for slots at Turf, I'm voting 'no', and asking everyone that I know, to do so also.

What we need to do is stop wasting time send emails to Dave Jonson at TUP, and start an email campaign to the ADW's like Youbet and TVG, asking them to remove TUP from their available tracks for the entire U.S.

There is no way this isssue is going to be resolved soon. In the meeting meetings from the 2004 AZ racing commision, Turf's management expressed concerns regarding ADW's. IF it took them 3 years to get this bill passed, I'm sure it will take them just as long to get it resolved.

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by bob77713

What we need to do is stop wasting time send emails to Dave Jonson at TUP, and start an email campaign to the ADW's like Youbet and TVG, asking them to remove TUP from their available tracks for the entire U.S.

That sir is a brilliant idea-to piggy back on that thought does anyone know what section of the country the bulk of TUP simulcast money comes from?

[rrbauer]

I own the domain www.boycott-az-racing.com

It's baseball playoffs, college football and Keeneland but I can have something up next week.

What do you want this site to be?

If someone wants to orchestrate this let me know because I can just be the "web master" and manage the site and you can manage the content.

Three kinds of people in this world:
1. Those that make things happen.
2. Those that watch things happen.
3. Those that scratch their heads and say, "What happened"/

Where do you fit?????

[betovernetcapper]

Richard-that is awesome.

[shanta]

Just got off the phone with someone I know at Brisbet. Bottom line is since Churchill took it over THEY are the ones calling the shots at Brisbet.

The C.E.O. of Churchill Downs is Bob Evans and his email is
askbob@kyderby.com

I am going to begin emailing him to remove Tup from their wagering calendar in lieu of issues in Arizona. I will also spread the word on my bud's site which numbers 400+ members.

askbob@kyderby.com

[shanta]

copy of my post over at my friend's racing website. I am also going to private message the entire board to reach those that might not tune in on a regular basis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put pressure on Arizona tracks
I am helping a push to have Adw's like Brisbet remove Turf Paradise from their wagering menu in lieu of Tup's effort in pushing through the bill banning internet wagering in Arizona.

Brisbet is controlled now by Churchill Downs. They call the shots.

The CEO of Churchill Downs Inc is Bob Evans. His email is
askbob@kyderby.com

I am going to begin emailing him asking to remove Tup from the Brisbet wagering calendar until the law in Arizona is repealed.Turf Paradise WAS instrumental in pushing the bill through. I was told this by a top dog at Tup so we are dealing in facts and not speculation.

I ask you to consider doing the same to help restore online betting in Arizona. Other states could follow man. We NEED to shut this thing down

Thank you for your consideration
askbob@kyderby.com

[betovernetcapper]

Shanta-music to my ears-YES