International Racing

[WP1981]

Since the end of NFL I have had some money clanking around in my offshore account. Been playing Wolverhampton, Ascot, etc.

The racing scene seems to be so much more popular across the pond. When I am on the go, I'll normally twitter search my horse a few minutes after post to see what shows up. Normally crickets here in the US even at the major tracks (maybe one drf tweet of result) but over there I'll see 30+ tweets of results from fans.

Their incentives are also a lot better via all the betting shops. I see promos like "any win bet that finishes second will be refunded" among others. Competition seems to make it a paradise for horse players compared to here.

Anyone else play out there?

[raybo]

Originally Posted by WP1981

Since the end of NFL I have had some money clanking around in my offshore account. Been playing Wolverhampton, Ascot, etc.

The racing scene seems to be so much more popular across the pond. When I am on the go, I'll normally twitter search my horse a few minutes after post to see what shows up. Normally crickets here in the US even at the major tracks (maybe one drf tweet of result) but over there I'll see 30+ tweets of results from fans.

Their incentives are also a lot better via all the betting shops. I see promos like "any win bet that finishes second will be refunded" among others. Competition seems to make it a paradise for horse players compared to here.

Anyone else play out there?

I don't bet on foreign races because I can't get data files for them, and the lack of fractional times is a big problem for me. Much of my method is predicated on pace/velocities.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by raybo

I don't bet on foreign races because I can't get data files for them, and the lack of fractional times is a big problem for me. Much of my method is predicated on pace/velocities.

I'm not really a figs guy,
but they are a great addition to the handicapping toolbox.

European racing is very different. Pace, as in US races, differs but
the turf condition has to be the biggest unknown.
The tracks, which only get raced on for short periods,
are seldom in the same condition throughout the year.
They can be labelled identically, but that doesn't mean they are
exactly the same.

There is now a common factor, though, for making US-type
speed figures, and that is on their synthetic tracks.
Tracks like Lingfield (AW), Wolverhampton, Southwell, and Dundalk in Ireland, all race on consistent surfaces.
Figures obtained from, say, Timeform at those tracks should be reliable.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

I'm not really a figs guy,
but they are a great addition to the handicapping toolbox.

European racing is very different. Pace, as in US races, differs but
the turf condition has to be the biggest unknown.
The tracks, which only get raced on for short periods,
are seldom in the same condition throughout the year.
They can be labelled identically, but that doesn't mean they are
exactly the same.

There is now a common factor, though, for making US-type
speed figures, and that is on their synthetic tracks.
Tracks like Lingfield (AW), Wolverhampton, Southwell, and Dundalk in Ireland, all race on consistent surfaces.
Figures obtained from, say, Timeform at those tracks should be reliable.

I understand what you're saying, but the raw data is what I need., I don't use, or even look at figures, pace or speed. Surface conditions change all the time, that's a given, and one that most cannot adjust for anyway. Just give me the raw data, that I need, in a properly formatted file, and I'll take it from there.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by raybo

I understand what you're saying, but the raw data is what I need., I don't use, or even look at figures, pace or speed. Surface conditions change all the time, that's a given, and one that most cannot adjust for anyway. Just give me the raw data, that I need, in a properly formatted file, and I'll take it from there.

Understood.
There has to be a source, but I can't help you there.

[joeslovo]

@WP1981
"Their incentives are also a lot better via all the betting shops. I see promos like "any win bet that finishes second will be refunded" among others. Competition seems to make it a paradise for horse players compared to here.

Anyone else play out there?"

I play recreationally at the weekends.There was recent jump racing from Gowran Park;Leopardstown and Ascot.Brilliant.I get a little homesick when I watch I worked at it in my youth and am from Belfast orginally.Horses4Courses had mentioned some of the best AW tracks.You will find more and more horses running in California that originated in Ireland and raced at Dundalk and Lingfield in particular.Paddy Gallagher used to have horses from Ireland that raced at Downpatrick and Dundalk;now I see more trainers with that profile.

Dundalk is destined to become a big European racing center.It is near a picturesque heritage village called Carlingford.My sister (RIP) used to have a hotel there;so I spent many a day and night at Dundalk horse and dog track.
Your point about competition is well taken.There are more opportunities and value for the punter in a village betting shop in Carlingford than at Las Vegas.
FYI Iuse "Atheraces.com" and "The sportinglife.com" for info..also Irishracing.com.If you got to "Racing" on the sportinglfe website..click on live shows and you will see the latest odds ;which are more reliable than you will on a US based site.

[ten2oneormore]

Anyone know why Twinspires isn't covering the Dubai Carnival this year?

[Tom]

Raybo, you can get raw data, including fractions, for some tracks from Trakus.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by raybo

I don't bet on foreign races because I can't get data files for them, and the lack of fractional times is a big problem for me. Much of my method is predicated on pace/velocities.

Yeah, I know a couple guys up n NY who are strictly figs guys. The clock is everything to them. Me? I handicap trips trouble and "pace"....
I also look at trainer stats geared to the field and race conditions.
To me, the time of a race is relative to the track conditions that day.
The pace of the race is the key....Just a difference in methods.
Like CJ stated in another thread, it's almost impossible to use time figs with the varying run up distances from one race to the next at the same race distance.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Tom

Raybo, you can get raw data, including fractions, for some tracks from Trakus.

Do they offer data files, and what format are they? That's the problem, I have to be able to manipulate the data the way I want to.

[Tom]

No - you can get a summary of fractions and copy it, but it would be all hand entry after that, or you could import it to Excel.

From Meydan...

[olddaddy]

Originally Posted by ten2oneormore

Anyone know why Twinspires isn't covering the Dubai Carnival this year?

Ive called them a couple times and they tell me that there is a contractual problem and they are in negotiations. I voiced my displeasure and tell them that I have to use another ADW and they tell me they will note that. So the bottom line is, Who knows why.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Tom

No - you can get a summary of fractions and copy it, but it would be all hand entry after that, or you could import it to Excel.

From Meydan...

Kinda hard to handicap a race if all you can get is a charts summary. I quit hand entering data back in the '80s.

[WP1981]

Originally Posted by joeslovo

@WP1981
"Their incentives are also a lot better via all the betting shops. I see promos like "any win bet that finishes second will be refunded" among others. Competition seems to make it a paradise for horse players compared to here.

Anyone else play out there?"

I play recreationally at the weekends.There was recent jump racing from Gowran Park;Leopardstown and Ascot.Brilliant.I get a little homesick when I watch I worked at it in my youth and am from Belfast orginally.Horses4Courses had mentioned some of the best AW tracks.You will find more and more horses running in California that originated in Ireland and raced at Dundalk and Lingfield in particular.Paddy Gallagher used to have horses from Ireland that raced at Downpatrick and Dundalk;now I see more trainers with that profile.

Dundalk is destined to become a big European racing center.It is near a picturesque heritage village called Carlingford.My sister (RIP) used to have a hotel there;so I spent many a day and night at Dundalk horse and dog track.
Your point about competition is well taken.There are more opportunities and value for the punter in a village betting shop in Carlingford than at Las Vegas.
FYI Iuse "Atheraces.com" and "The sportinglife.com" for info..also Irishracing.com.If you got to "Racing" on the sportinglfe website..click on live shows and you will see the latest odds ;which are more reliable than you will on a US based site.

Nice. I've been using thesportinglife for results and some other information. The odds take some getting used to, but is pretty easy to figure out.

Trying Punchestown (IRE) tomorrow. Massive fields and looks like a lot of fun.

[joeslovo]

Punchestown looks like a good card tomorrow.I notice that Ruby Walsh is riding there.One of the greatest jocks ever;along with Tony McCoy.
JP McManus is also a big owner;a great racing man and well known fearless gambler.ou definitely need Irishracing.com for Punchestown then.Just click on "Cards" and then on the time of the race and you will see the Formscan.
Break a leg.

The odds can take a wee bit of getting used to for someone used to the tote decimal system only as in the USA.
For instance;odds such as 11/8 or 7/4 are not usually seen in over here.
11/8 would be 11/8ths obviously but the way to work with these fractions would be evens plus a 1/4 plus a 1/2 of the quarter.In other words for any amount(lets make it 8 units for ease of example) we would have 8 plus a quarter of that 8 plus a 1/2 of that quarter.Which is 8+2+1;equals 11.
7/4 would be 2/1 less a quarter or better still;evens plus a 1/2 plus a 1/2 ie
4+2+1 which equals 7.
The punters in the shops usually SP ie Starting Price.They cab bet each way doubles and trebles and accumulators.Take 4 horses which constitute a bet called a Yankee.It is 6 doubles 4 trebles and one fourfold.
Six horses you can use a Heinz (57 bets no prize for guessing that one) which is 15 doubles;20 trebles;15 fourfolds;6 fivefolds and one accumulator.
SP odds are nowadays 1/4 or 1/5th to place(first three) so 11/8 and your horse is second or third the odds are now 11/32 at 1/4 odds a place or 11/40 at 1/5th.7/4 would likewise be 7/16 or 7/20.And so on and so forth.All fun and games.