Do bettors really care about takeout?

[NJ Stinks]

Originally Posted by Gone2Golf

Philly Park would be out of business based on 30% takeout rates. Lots of tracks have 25% exotic bet takeouts.

I've avoided the 30% trifecta takeout at Philly Park for years. (I think it used to be 31% on trifectas there.) And I used to get upset because the trifecta pools were usually close to the exacta pools (currently 20% takeout on exactas but used to be 19%). But I've noticed that nowadays the exacta pools are almost always at least 20% bigger than the trifecta pools at Philly.

Either the bettors at Philly are more aware now (possible but attendence is so bad now it may not matter), the older folks who used to play the tri's religiously are no longer active, or maybe it's just because most of the money bet on Philly today comes from sharp simulcast players around the country who are more likely to understand the significance of takeout. Whatever the reason, it's a good sign that management must have noticed.

[KingChas]

The thing that everybody fails to mention is the taxable winning bet.
We as amatuers or pros should know before venturing to the the track what their takeout is.Live with it or quit.(For Now).I am not saying a voice not heard is not good(HANA).But until things change, as I said we have to live with it or change our proffesion/hobby/pleasure.
The big thing with me is the taxation and deductable amount our good old government allows.
A double whammy.
Very antiquated.

[DeanT]

Hi King,

Have you signed the withholding action item? An email is automatically sent to your congressman about the Pari mutuel bill.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation....lding-tax.html

The wheels are in motion on that and one would hope the whole tax issue will be better if that can get done.

D

[KingChas]

Will do.
Had heard something about it,wasn't aware of the progress.
Thanks for the link DeanT.

[dvlander]

I always hate to divide groups of folks into two distinct classes but from what I observe, gamblers could care less about takeout. However, investors such as the majority of players on this board are certainly cognizant of the effects of takeout. In my view, the difference between the two classes is that investors will typically have a concrete proven strategy that they believe will result in a positive return and the takeout is considered in that strategy. Gamblers may have a strategy as well such as betting red after black has come up three times in a row but their plans are not backed up by valid research.

Here in Oregon, we have state-sponsored video poker that returns 51 cents on the dollar long-term. I am constantly amazed at how many gamblers shove hard-earned dough into these machines hour after hour. While in one of these establishments for a work event, I asked ten different players if they had any idea what the long-term return on these machines was. Not one of them knew. The best response was "No, but I hit a straight flush last week".

I rest my case.

Dale

[rokitman]

Dumb money doesn't care about take-out. Dumb money doesn't care about much. Nor do they have have much. They will be plundered, pillaged and ejected from the pools very quickly at any take-out rate, unless they smarten up fast. That's not going to happen much. Our countries continuing expansion of a commitment to the cultivation and expoitation of ignorance is going to make the mortgage-based disaster be a fond memory of the "good ol' days" sometime soon.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by KingChas

Will do.
Had heard something about it,wasn't aware of the progress.
Thanks for the link DeanT.

Rumblings say that this has a shot to pass, so every person helps the cause. Thanks!

investors such as the majority of players on this board are certainly cognizant of the effects of takeout

Yes, I agree. Every player who has ever used a spot play is cognizant of takeout. If your spot play only shows 0.97 ROI you bet zero dollars. If we had the takeout of slot machines you would be betting that spot play with both fists because it would be profitable.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by DeanT

Hi King,

Have you signed the withholding action item? An email is automatically sent to your congressman about the Pari mutuel bill.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation....lding-tax.html

The wheels are in motion on that and one would hope the whole tax issue will be better if that can get done.

D

This will never go anywhere, if people want to eliminate withholding at the track, they will have to assert their rights. Congress will never give back what you have given it.

jdl

[Bruddah]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

This will never go anywhere, if people want to eliminate withholding at the track, they will have to assert their rights. Congress will never give back what you have given it.
jdl

A Big Amen Bruddah on this! Congress also won't give back what you never authorized to be taken.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

This will never go anywhere, if people want to eliminate withholding at the track, they will have to assert their rights. Congress will never give back what you have given it.

jdl

I agree it won't go anywhere the way they're doing it.

When they fail it will give HANA an opportunity to take the lead and do it the right way. I believe it can be done if it is approached the right way!

[Sid]

I am not entirely sure whether references to "serious bettors" and "dumb money" suggest that anyone who shares my views on takeout, rebates, withholding tax and prioritization of related issues impacting our moribund game simply doesn't understand the way these things work. For the record, I'd like to indicate I do understand.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by andymays

I agree it won't go anywhere the way they're doing it.

When they fail it will give HANA an opportunity to take the lead and do it the right way. I believe it can be done if it is approached the right way!

The opportunity is always present. Your signature on a W2G is the lawful authorization for the withholding. Without it, withholding is larceny.

jdl

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by andymays

I agree it won't go anywhere the way they're doing it.

When they fail it will give HANA an opportunity to take the lead and do it the right way. I believe it can be done if it is approached the right way!

AM,
Please describe the "right way."

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by Sid

I am not entirely sure whether references to "serious bettors" and "dumb money" suggest that anyone who shares my views on takeout, rebates, withholding tax and prioritization of related issues impacting our moribund game simply doesn't understand the way these things work. For the record, I'd like to indicate I do understand.

I am are not sure whether anyone should believe that you believe that they think what you believe is "dumb money". Because whether or not anyone here believes that you believe that they believe that -- I doubt that they actually do believe that.

That's just for the record.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I am are not sure whether anyone should believe that you believe that they think what you believe is "dumb money". Because whether or not anyone here believes that you believe that they believe that -- I doubt that they actually do believe that.

That's just for the record.

How much Sid would a woodchick kick if a woodchick could kick Sid?