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12-01-2022, 09:34 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
VJ Stauffer,
Now, THAT is a helpful explanation that even a guy like me can make sense of.
Thank you.
To carry on with that, would you also say that perhaps a better jockey would have been able to get him to switch leads? Or even have changed the entire ride?
Dave
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Sure it's possible.
If a horse is common it's tough to get that out of them.
But great hands and instincts can help.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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12-01-2022, 09:51 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 5,153
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The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.
It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst, Quick Grid Software
Last edited by ranchwest; 12-01-2022 at 10:02 PM.
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12-01-2022, 10:11 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchwest
The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.
It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.
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I don't think he LET him drift back.
I think when he asked him to maintain position, he didn't get anything from his mount.
Tapeta is funny. For some it's really hard to quicken. They have to gather momentum.
Very difficult for horses who don't like the surface.
Once he started to shuffle. Then the horse also showed he wasn't a fan of being inside and sucked himself all the way out of it.
Tough to ride and bad horses can make jocks look really bad sometimes.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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12-01-2022, 10:23 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Figure
Sonny thought after winning the derby he would become a big time rider! He was very good in Ohio, but if he stays at GP when the big meet starts he’ll be lucky to win 10% of his mounts!
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The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
__________________
"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
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12-01-2022, 10:29 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 5,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
I don't think he LET him drift back.
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Correct. i poorly worded my response to earlier assertions.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst, Quick Grid Software
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12-01-2022, 10:30 PM
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#21
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DJ M.Walk
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Compton, CA!
Posts: 2,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
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I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.
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12-01-2022, 10:31 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 5,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
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He was over 12% at the meet.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst, Quick Grid Software
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12-01-2022, 10:39 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Figure
I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.
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Championship meet? Tapeta has made Gulfstream irrelevant handle was down 30% last year it’s now known as the ChampionSHIT meet.
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12-01-2022, 10:44 PM
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#24
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkey11
cheating we all know that never happens in games of chance does it ?and who said he cheated i did not read that word in the posts
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thread is titled criminal act...way to be smart
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12-01-2022, 10:48 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.
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Actually, the supposed big meet begins on 12/26 this year. In prior years it would have started today.
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12-01-2022, 11:09 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 274
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I agree with Pace and TLG
there was no stiff job here
Gulfstream's Tapeta is actually extremely off the pace favoring for the most part (which I think makes it particularly bettable, given the reactions here and how slow people are to realize this, it's blatantly clear actually) - Sonny seemed to understand
Early Speed almost never holds on the Tapeta at Gulfstream
as for races never being stiffed, of course they are
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12-01-2022, 11:27 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Beaverdam Virginia
Posts: 12,717
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Without looking at a Racing Form I can't judge. I didn't see anything horrible about the ride, we are talking low level maiden claimers.
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12-02-2022, 04:03 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,053
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Ride reminds of me of when Eddie D. & Corey Black stiffed A.P. Indy & Flying Continental in the 1992 Belmont & 1990 Jockey Club Gold Cup, respectively.
I think a fair compromise to the debate here is that Leon "criminally overrated" his mount?
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12-02-2022, 05:44 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
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it's a cliche, but... When a Jockey is riding well, they find ways to win. When a Jockey is not riding well, they find ways to lose.
Last edited by porchy44; 12-02-2022 at 05:48 AM.
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12-02-2022, 06:14 AM
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#30
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
I wouldn't have described his trip like that in any way. He tried a little to hold the position and the horse was backing out. It happens. He also hardly "suddenly stepped on the gas" and he definitely didn't "circle the field." Actually, save the situation of position, he gave him an OK ride, saving ground and splitting horses. Frankly, I think the biggest crime in watching that video is cutting to a useless head-on angle mid-race. We will never know what took place during that period.
People tend to exaggerate trips and trouble. This horse isn't fast enough to keep up with the leader. He also might not have loved being inside of horses. Blaming Leon, and claiming he did something "criminal" is ridiculous, and that's being nice. Irad Ortiz might have finished second on him today. I don't see a scenario where he would have won.
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Must you ruin the fun geez
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