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Old 07-21-2018, 10:41 AM   #841
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Finally, washing machine repairmen have plenty of work.
Correct.

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Meanwhile, appliance-repair businesses are making a killing as consumers put off the purchase of new appliances in favor of the expensive (but relatively cheaper) repairs they wouldn't have purchased in a not-so-long-ago pre-tariff past. Poor protect-me-but-not-thee Whirlpool; this sad turn of events has forced the company to reconsider many of its hopes for expansion.

With imports down, the company planned to add workers at its washer plant in expectation of a new rush of tariff-induced washer sales. Not so fast. Thanks to the many tariffs applied to over $90 billion of imports from China and other places (including inputs and raw materials like steel), Whirlpool not only didn't add 1,300 workers to its Clyde factory in Ohio; it has actually reduced its production. It's therefore unsurprising that Whirlpool's share price is down 15 percent since the washer tariffs were put in place. That's in spite of the massive cut in the corporate income tax rate from 35 to 21 percent and other tax cuts.
https://www.creators.com/read/veroni...the-spin-cycle
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:28 PM   #842
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Looks like Trump is doing some things to open up free trade in the world.


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President Trump called the European Union a trading “foe” last week, and on Tuesday European leaders replied by signing an economic partnership with Japan that will eliminate almost all tariffs on bilateral goods. The negotiations had dragged on for years, but Mr. Trump’s protectionism pushed both sides to reach a deal that shows how trade liberalization will increasingly bypass the U.S.

The removal of Japanese quotas and duties on European farm products will hurt American hog farmers, who currently enjoy a strong market position in Japan. EU processed-food exports are expected to grow by as much as 180%.

The biggest impact will be in manufacturing industries dear to Mr. Trump’s heart. In addition to removing tariffs, the deal will harmonize standards and remove nontariff barriers. As the U.S. raises duties on imported raw materials and components, its attractiveness as a manufacturing base will fall and supply chains will cut out American suppliers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trading...ica-1531868982
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:18 PM   #843
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Pro Tip: It isn't socialism if it involves farmers...

Politico: Trump to announce trade aid for farmers

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The administration's plan will use two commodity support programs in the farm bill, as well as the Agriculture Department’s broad authority to stabilize the agricultural economy during times of turmoil.


The plan has been in the works for months. It seeks to ensure U.S. farmers and ranchers — a key constituency for President Donald Trump and Republicans — don’t bear the brunt of an escalating trade fight with China, the European Union and other major economies as the administration pursues an aggressive course to rebalance America's trade relationships.

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Old 07-24-2018, 10:39 PM   #844
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Your correct, our farmers are a national security interest. When things go sideways and food is a problem for the world these United States will be in good shape. We have no obligation to share, and things will go sideways. Getting rid of that inheritance tax will prevent the Bilderburg Group from snapping up all the good farmland in this country forcing family's to sell to the hidden folks in central banks.

Shit I though you 86's yourself, I go away for a few days and all shit falls in.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:45 PM   #845
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Your correct, our farmers are a national security interest. When things go sideways and food is a problem for the world these United States will be in good shape. We have no obligation to share, and things will go sideways. Getting rid of that inheritance tax will prevent the Bilderburg Group from snapping up all the good farmland in this country forcing family's to sell to the hidden folks in central banks.

Shit I though you 86's yourself, I go away for a few days and all shit falls in.
According to Trump so are our workers so...?

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Old 07-25-2018, 03:46 PM   #846
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To all you disingenuous Trump haters who were worried to high heaven for the poor soybean farmers: the EU just blinked and agreed to buy more soybeans and other US industrial products, thus narrowing the huge trade deficit that the 'free' trade geniuses have claimed is good for the US economy.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:50 PM   #847
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To all you disingenuous Trump haters
Actually, I am a genuine Trump hater
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:37 PM   #848
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Yup a real genuine hater. Have a nice day.
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:56 PM   #849
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Actually, I am a genuine Trump hater
NO SOYBEANS for YOU!!!
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:39 PM   #850
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To all you disingenuous Trump haters who were worried to high heaven for the poor soybean farmers: the EU just blinked and agreed to buy more soybeans and other US industrial products, thus narrowing the huge trade deficit that the 'free' trade geniuses have claimed is good for the US economy.
Trump essentially agreed to TPP's sister deal the TTiP.

In case you were wondering... think NAFTA... but EVERYWHERE!
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:07 PM   #851
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Wait, you mean playing hardball and putting everyone in an accelerating lose-lose position made everyone come to the table and try to work out a solution that was beneficial to the instigator before things got out of hand?

Too bad we've had morons and fear mongers in charge for 30+ years that just let everyone take advantage of us to whatever extreme they wanted.

Trade is good, tariffs are bad, but bad trade deals are a disaster.

Mutually beneficial improving deals are good.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:41 PM   #852
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Wait, you mean playing hardball and putting everyone in an accelerating lose-lose position made everyone come to the table and try to work out a solution that was beneficial to the instigator before things got out of hand?

Too bad we've had morons and fear mongers in charge for 30+ years that just let everyone take advantage of us to whatever extreme they wanted.

Trade is good, tariffs are bad, but bad trade deals are a disaster.

Mutually beneficial improving deals are good.
Nonsense and you should know better for the cop out answer.

You've rattled against free trade nonstop in here but now that Trump proposes it... forget about the deficits... this is great! #MAGA.

This deal has been in the works since 2011. It's called TTiP. It's just like TPP. It calls for no duties across 97% of goods.

Europe has always been open to it until negotiations ceased when Trump was elected.

Think NAFTA for Europe.

This just more manufacturing a problem then fixing it and declaring victory. You guys love this shit.

European Council President back in March...

Quote:
“His proposal to impose tariffs on European steel and aluminum is a bad sign for transatlantic relations,” Tusk said at a news conference with Sipilä. “Let me be clear: Instead of risking a trade war, which he seems eager to wage, we should be aiming for greater cooperation. When the president says he is unhappy about too many barriers and tariffs between the EU and the U.S., I can understand him. We are not happy either. That is the reason why a few years ago we started trade negotiations with the U.S. We should go back to these talks now.”
You guys make it sound like this is some YUGE victory... this was actually Trump dropping the issue.

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Old 07-25-2018, 09:07 PM   #853
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...
Earlier... same thread...

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I think free trade has been a huge negative for US workers, enriched foreigners, put trillions of dollars of US bonds in foreign hands that gives them influence over our fiscal and monetary policy (they can and have threatened to dump them), yielded large benefits to already rich investors, and small benefits to all consumers.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:54 PM   #854
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Earlier... same thread...

Dude, sorry, but you appear to be suffering or Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I still agree with everything you quoted from me above.

I've said from day one that tariffs are a bad idea, but the goal of the Trump tariffs was only to get people to the negotiating table because no one was going to give up an advantageous trade position out of the goodness of their heart. Only liberals believe in fairly tales like that. It was all talk.

Now we are getting some action. He's getting them to the table making actual agreements instead of blowing smoke up people asses. That's alone is a greater success than all the recent presidents before him that sold us out to Wall St and dim witted globalists.

I still think totally free trade can't work well because countries still have vastly different regulations, tax structures, labor laws, and labor costs. They erect barriers, manipulate currencies (the monetary system is fvcked up) etc... Therefore there will inevitably be huge transfers of jobs and wealth (as there has been for the last 30+ years). It's not until everyone is in a similar position that it can start working as the theory suggests. "Western" Europe is in pretty much the same position as the US. Free trade with most of "western" Europe should work reasonably well unless there are tariffs, barriers etc.. The problem is that it may still be another 50 years until many other places are in that position and we are still getting gutted in the meantime.

However, to the extent you can renegotiate, remove other country's tariffs and barriers, you are improving your position and winning the deal.

I never expected the US was going to undo 30+ years of being dumber than a rock in 6 months of negotiating. That wouldn't even be smart. Neither side could adjust quickly enough to the reversal. It would be too disruptive. However, we are clearly on the right track now. We are trying to get countries to remove their unfair tariffs, barriers, etc.. by threatening them with tariffs. And since we are currently in the "deficit" position, they have more to lose in our market than we do in theirs. We just have to stand strong and take the short term hits from their retaliation until their pain so exceeds our own, they have to come to the table because it makes sense for everyone. If we weaken because economic pinheads, liberals, and Trump derangement sufferers can't stand a little short term pain for long term gain, then we'll blow our best chance in several decades to get on a healthier track in terms of trade. They'll keep talking a good game and continue with the rape and pillage because fairy tales only exist in the minds of liberals and TDS sufferers.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:57 PM   #855
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Dude, sorry, but you appear to be suffering or Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I still agree with everything you quoted from me above.

I've said from day one that tariffs are a bad idea, but the goal of the Trump tariffs was only to get people to the negotiating table because no one was going to give up an advantageous trade position out of the goodness of their heart. Only liberals believe in fairly tales like that.

He's getting them to the table. That's alone is a greater success than all the recent presidents before him that sold us out to Wall St and dim witted globalists.

I still think totally free trade can't work well because countries still have vastly different regulations, tax structures, labor laws, and labor costs. They erect barriers, manipulate currencies (the monetary system is fvcked up) etc... Therefore there will inevitably be huge transfers of jobs and wealth (as there has been for the last 30+ years). It's not until everyone is in a similar position that it can start working as the theory suggests. The problem is that that may still be another 50 years away and we are getting gutted in the meantime.

However, to the extent you can renegotiate, remove other country's tariffs and barriers, you are improving your position and winning the deal.

I never expected the US was going to undo 30+ years of being dumber than a rock in 6 months of negotiating. That wouldn't even be smart. Neither side could adjust quickly enough to the reversal. It would be too disruptive. However, we are clearly on the right track now. We are trying to get countries to remove their unfair tariffs, barriers, etc.. by threatening them with tariffs. And since we are currently in the "deficit" position, they have more to lose in our market than we do in theirs. We just have to stand strong and take the short term hits from their retaliation until their pain so exceeds our own, they have to come to the table because it makes sense for everyone. If we weaken because economic pinheads, liberals, and Trump derangement sufferers can't stand a little short term pain for long term gain, then we'll blow our best chance in several decades to get on a healthier track for the country in trade.
So... the victory of getting them to the table was the issue?

They were already willing to go to the table. It's been cited a bunch in this thread.

Again this is manufacturing a problem then magically fixing it and claiming victory.

I quoted Tusk above... from March... they were more than willing.

You ignore that.

Free trade now is good... Clocker and I have been saying this for about 50 pages now.

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