Thanks to HANA and BillW......

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Rook

My quotes on the host fees are not misguided. They are a fact. I am informing people on this board instead of trying to mislead them.

Yeah, my agenda is crystal clear. I am a horseplayer and I know which tracks are a rip off. Your employer tops the list.

Host fees are determined by laws of economics. ADWs and other simulcast venues pay more for the more desired signals. The fact that they pay the most for NYRA is a simple reflection of the demand for the NYRA signal. This isn't exactly advanced stuff. This does not affect a player unless he or she gets a rebate. Also not exactly a complicated concept.

NYRA is not ripping anybody off. For you to insinuate that, due to an obvious agenda, is ( and I'm being nice ) misguided. Hopefully this helps clear things up for you.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

And you work for them, so you are hardly unbias either.

I think everyone knows I work for them. Please, feel free to intelligently explain what I have been wrong about.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by the little guy

This does not affect a player unless he or she gets a rebate. Also not exactly a complicated concept.

It's not complicated and it's not widely known either. The concept of host fees needs to be discussed much more widely because it has a profound impact on a player's bottom line.

Originally Posted by the little guy

NYRA is not ripping anybody off.

My opinion is that they are. A horseplayer can get a much better deal at dozens of tracks. It saddens me that HANA hasn't done a better job of teaching the public this fact.

Originally Posted by the little guy

For you to insinuate that, due to an obvious agenda, is ( and I'm being nice ) misguided. Hopefully this helps clear things up for you.

What is clear is that you are a mouthpiece for your employer. That's perfectly understandable and admirable. I am not beholden to anybody but the truth.

[Robert Fischer]

right now, AFAIK, I get the same miniscule rebates regardless of which tracks I play at.

I use one of the more popular ADWs.

I inquired and found out more about rebates that increase with a higher volume of wagering, and within that higher volume that also increase with use of exotic wagering.

I assume some ADW's will offer different rebates based upon the track wagered upon, although my widely used ADW does not.

It seems that host signals would primarily be a concern of ADWs themselves, and of players who seek rebates by specializing with certain ADWs who offer greater rebates w/ low host rate tracks.



when i asked questions like:

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Why not break down some wager types?
Show what you mean by effective takeout, and be explicit about how people would access these rebates.

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

What resources do you guys offer regarding educating players about maximizing their rebate opportunity?

Although with my personal situation, I might not be interested, I was under the impression that Rook was either an ADW person or a person who specializes in such small-track rebate play, and would then step in with a pitch for his ADW, or with constructive advice. Instead it does now look more like a personal issue with NYRA tracks.

Anyway that was the source of my confusion.

[Jeff P]

Rook, I really wish you and CJ and a few others had decided to stay on. Just so you know, I fully agree with what you are saying about rebates.

My personal belief is that our track ratings algorithm - absolutely and without question - should be changed to accurately report the following:

• Track Signal Fee and impact on rebates.

• Willingness by tracks and their horsemen to distribute track signals.

• Severe penalty in the ratings for tracks (and their horsemen) in states where tracks and horsemen have written state law to ban ADW wagering outright.

• Severe penalty in the ratings for tracks (and their horsemen) in states where tracks and horsemen have written state law to impose source market fee (and its impact on rebates.)

That said - Are you familiar with the following phrase?

"A camel is a horse that was put together by committee."

There are 8 members on the HANA Board. Every time we as a board have discussed our track ratings - I have actively campaigned to change the algorithm to make it reflect the above bullet points.

However, I am in the minority. Our current track ratings reflect the majority opinion of the HANA Board.

The reasoning behind the majority opinion (of not addressing rebates in our track ratings algorithm) goes something like this:

The majority of our members don't get rebates. Therefore, our track ratings are tailored to the majority of our members.

Even though I personally disagree with this line of thinking - I do understand where it is coming from.

Jeff Platt
President, HANA

.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

...I was under the impression that Rook was either an ADW person or a person who specializes in such small-track rebate play, and would then step in with a pitch for his ADW, or with constructive advice. Instead it does now look more like a personal issue with NYRA tracks.

Nope I am not an ADW person. I have never made a dime referral off of anybody. I can however give lots of advice to those who want to know since I have been getting rebates for 9 years.

My "personal issue" with NYRA is that I think they are bad for horse racing. Double digit takeouts have been bleeding this sport to death compared to sports wagering. Racing needs winners and NYRA puts up too high a hurdle to overcome for the vast majority of people.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

The majority of our members don't get rebates. Therefore, our track ratings are tailored to the majority of our members.

Jeff, I think it should be one of HANA's major crusades to help players get their highest possible rebate. It would help so many stay in the game and in some cases would be truly life changing.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Rook

Jeff, I think it should be one of HANA's major crusades to help players get their highest possible rebate. It would help so many stay in the game and in some cases would be truly life changing.

Why rebate? Why not just takeout reductions?

[Rook]

Originally Posted by cj

Why rebate? Why not just takeout reductions?

I would prefer takeout reductions as well but a rebate can be acquired today. A takeout reduction can take years multiplied by dozens of states.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Rook

It's not complicated and it's not widely known either. The concept of host fees needs to be discussed much more widely because it has a profound impact on a player's bottom line.

My opinion is that they are. A horseplayer can get a much better deal at dozens of tracks. It saddens me that HANA hasn't done a better job of teaching the public this fact.

What is clear is that you are a mouthpiece for your employer. That's perfectly understandable and admirable. I am not beholden to anybody but the truth.

Nothing new here. Host fees don't affect players unless they get a rebate. In which case, your issue is with the rebate site, as they are your business partner. This is true regardless of who I work for.

[ronsmac]

Art grace for the Miami news i believe in the late 1970s and one of the writers for the n.y. post in the early 80's complained that takeout was too high, and more than 30 yrs later takeout rates still haven't changed, with a few small acceptions. I seriously doubt there will ever be any real meaningful reductions in takeouts in my lifetime.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

Why rebate? Why not just takeout reductions?

He does recruit customers for a rebate shop....right?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

...

• Severe penalty in the ratings for tracks (and their horsemen) in states where tracks and horsemen have written state law to ban ADW wagering outright.

...

Jeff Platt
President, HANA

.

Any penalty short of an automatic F- and banishment to the bottom of the list in its own section of those not worth supporting at all would be too generous... in my humble opinion of course.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Host fees don't affect players unless they get a rebate. In which case, your issue is with the rebate site, as they are your business partner. This is true regardless of who I work for.

I deal with three ADWs and I am very happy with all of them. They give me the best rate that they can. Unfortunately do to high NYRA host fees, the rebate that they can afford to offer for NYRA tracks is paltry. Everybody who gets rebates is in the same boat.

Yes, NYRA is fine for the casual player who doesn't get rebates but this does not describe me and it doesn't describe a whole pile of people on this board.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by the little guy

He does recruit customers for a rebate shop....right?

Wrong. Unlike yourself I am not an employee or an agent. I am a free man.