Thanks to HANA and BillW......

[riskman]

Originally Posted by GameTheory

Aren't the ratings better viewed as more like reviews, i.e. places you SHOULD consider betting because of x, y, & z? So maybe some of those smaller tracks OUGHT to get more handle, and here's why. And sure Saratoga is very popular, but maybe there are good opportunities to be had at Oaklawn? Everybody knows which tracks do the most handle -- no point in making a list if that is all you are going to cite. The point is to examine the other factors you may not have considered (or didn't want to put the work into doing as has been done for you here), and now you have this nice reference and can make more intelligent choices where to put your wagering dollar. Just like if you were looking at movie reviews to find something good to watch, you'd want them to tell you something other than the box office numbers...

This is exactly how I view the HANA report, which by the way is an excellent source of track info. Personally, I do not see any agenda here other than providing horse players with specific information not available in a single source that I am aware of in the industry. In terms of the rankings, it has already been explained how HANA came up with the list. The information in the report is more important to me than the overall rankings.
Yes, I live in the Big Apple bet the NYRA tracks and try to make it to Saratoga during the summer. Spend more time at Belmont than the other NYRA tracks, simply because it is convenient to me.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Rook

Then frankly you don't have the requisite experience with enough tracks and a wide range of pools. I'm sorry you did not share with us how many minor league tracks have provided you with a worse P&L than NYRA tracks.

Well, that is easy, nearly all of them. I win the most where I can bet the most. I don't find the competition tougher in the big pools, I find it easier. Maybe I'm just lucky.

We're done, get back on topic or move on.

[Robert Goren]

How did a simple thank you to the people at Hana for printing numbers that are hard to find in one place turn into this dog fight? I don't always agree with their track rankings, but they do some amazing work.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

How did a simple thank you to the people at Hana for printing numbers that are hard to find in one place turn into this dog fight? I don't always agree with their track rankings, but they do some amazing work.

I'll give a little background on why I am so intense on this issue:
I am the one of the original guys who was there when HANA was being formed in the War Room. My contribution was the the HANA tracks ratings. I didn't just come up with the idea..I put together a spreadsheet with a whole bunch of categories for each track.

For reasons, I still don't know after all these years, they went with another set of ratings that dropped rebates as a criteria. I didn't bitch about it at the time because although I thought it was a disgrace to leave them out, I really wanted HANA to succeed.

The fact that my own idea is being used to rank a very player unfriendly place over much more deserving tracks..leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and gets me hot under the collar.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

I don't think rebates have anything to do with the ratings.

I thought that was the whole point of Rook's response to me about "effective takeout" and "$ charging for host fee signal". [post#88]

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Rook

For reasons, I still don't know after all these years, they went with another set of ratings that dropped rebates as a criteria. I didn't bitch about it at the time because although I thought it was a disgrace to leave them out, I really wanted HANA to succeed.

Ok , this answers my question.


cc Now I see from going through the thread thead that this was all an offshoot from post #55.
By not reading every post I had a misunderstanding that a)Rook was involved in the current rankings, and b)Host signal plays a big role in current rankings.

:threadout

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Rook

I'll give a little background on why I am so intense on this issue:
I am the one of the original guys who was there when HANA was being formed in the War Room. My contribution was the the HANA tracks ratings. I didn't just come up with the idea..I put together a spreadsheet with a whole bunch of categories for each track.

For reasons, I still don't know after all these years, they went with another set of ratings that dropped rebates as a criteria. I didn't bitch about it at the time because although I thought it was a disgrace to leave them out, I really wanted HANA to succeed.

The fact that my own idea is being used to rank a very player unfriendly place over much more deserving tracks..leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and gets me hot under the collar.

Sounds like you have a pretty legitimate reason to be pissed. I definitely agree with your stance on rebates and takeout over pool size in general. I honestly don't know why people bet nyra or socal other than the chance at a huge score i guess.

[GameTheory]

Originally Posted by Rook

...that dropped rebates as a criteria.

Isn't the reason simply that the rebate level you can get varies from player to player depending on your locale and how big of a bettor you are? You could include *potential* for rebates based on the signal fee, but that information would be hard to acquire for all tracks (probably), and again doesn't really apply to an individual if they can't actually get the rebate.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by GameTheory

Isn't the reason simply that the rebate level you can get varies from player to player depending on your locale and how big of a bettor you are? You could include *potential* for rebates based on the signal fee, but that information would be hard to acquire for all tracks (probably), and again doesn't really apply to an individual if they can't actually get the rebate.

As I stated earlier, rebates vary from player to player but the one constant is host fees. People playing with a certain ADW might get different rebates but the one thing that is sure is that NYRA is charging more for the signal than the smaller tracks. That would not be a hard thing to include at all. The tracks that charge 3 or 4% should be promoted and ranked highly..the tracks like NYRA that charge 9-11%, should be at the bottom of a horseplayers' list.

As far as individuals not being able to get a rebate, that is a topic for many other threads. For the majority of the players, they are available if you make a bit of effort.

[JustRalph]

Ok, now we get it. Somebody close the thread..........please

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Rook

As I stated earlier, rebates vary from player to player but the one constant is host fees. People playing with a certain ADW might get different rebates but the one thing that is sure is that NYRA is charging more for the signal than the smaller tracks. That would not be a hard thing to include at all. The tracks that charge 3 or 4% should be promoted and ranked highly..the tracks like NYRA that charge 9-11%, should be at the bottom of a horseplayers' list.

As far as individuals not being able to get a rebate, that is a topic for many other threads. For the majority of the players, they are available if you make a bit of effort.

At least now you made it obvious....as opposed to how disingenuous you were previously in this thread.

Tracks charge what the market will pay.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by the little guy

At least now you made it obvious....as opposed to how disingenuous you were previously in this thread.

Tracks charge what the market will pay.

Sure, and luckily for NYRA, the vast majority of horseplayers have no idea what a host fee is, never mind the fact that NYRA charges far more than other tracks. I am happy to give them a bit of an education in this area.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Rook

Sure, and luckily for NYRA, the vast majority of horseplayers have no idea what a host fee is, never mind the fact that NYRA charges far more than other tracks. I am happy to give them a bit of an education in this area.

This is shockingly misguided. You might want to brush up on some basic economic principles.

It's clear you have an agenda against NYRA. I get it.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by the little guy

This is shockingly misguided. You might want to brush up on some basic economic principles.

It's clear you have an agenda against NYRA. I get it.

My quotes on the host fees are not misguided. They are a fact. I am informing people on this board instead of trying to mislead them.

Yeah, my agenda is crystal clear. I am a horseplayer and I know which tracks are a rip off. Your employer tops the list.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by the little guy

This is shockingly misguided. You might want to brush up on some basic economic principles.

It's clear you have an agenda against NYRA. I get it.

And you work for them, so you are hardly unbias either.