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Old 01-16-2019, 01:32 AM   #9256
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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post

And what about all the knowledge you think you possess? Does that get flushed down the toilet, too, "from your consciousness when you pass"?
Only material knowledge gets flushed, not spiritual knowledge your soul uses to grow. That spiritual knowledge is privy only to your soul, not your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Are Jesus' words illusions, too? He didn't seem to think so -- but then again -- you know so much more than he ever did, right?

Matt 24:35
35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
Jesus means that the meaning of his words will not pass away. You won't find it in words themselves in the afterlife.


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Originally Posted by boxcar
Methinks your spiritual drivel, which you believe is "enlightenment" will pass away long before God's eternal word does.
It's fact not drivel. What I said is that your heart is who you are and that love in your heart comes from God and is part of God. If you can't understand that then I pity you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Hitler thought he was doing good due to the self-deceived nature of his wicked heart.
I could say the same about you. Judge not lest ye be judged.

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Originally Posted by boxcar
And when Jesus prayed for the forgiveness of his murderers, the sin of murder they committed against him was not a mere illusion. They actually murdered their Messiah!
Their illusion was their "self righteousness" that they then enacted into reality.

Also what this incident showed is that if Jesus can forgive his murderers then he can forgive everyone because he knows they are under the influence of illusion. If they knew what they were doing they would become self tormented like Barabbas. But that self torment was Barabbas's birth into higher consciousness. It's called growth.

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Originally Posted by boxcar
One's personal ignorance does not nullify reality. When a blind man walks his path and is ignorant of all that lies in his path before him due to his darkness, this doesn't mean that his path and all that is on it is an illusion. Nor does it mean that his physical blindness is an illusion!
Wrong. Helen Keller said The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision.

You are so superficial you do not understand when I talk of "ones path" that I am speaking spiritually, not materially.

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Originally Posted by boxcar
Jesus didn't bear the illusion of his people's sins in his body -- he actually bore their real sins! He paid, on behalf of his people, their real sin debt. And sin is lawlessness! Sin is doing what is wrong or not doing what is right!
Understand this about sin. If there were no illusions there would be no sins. If there were no illusions,everything would appear as reality is. Divine Light and Love


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Originally Posted by boxcar
And who exactly is going to judge me or anyone else?
You will judge yourself. What you did in this life will be made clear to you on the other side either by God, Jesus or other spiritual beings. They will only show you your impact on your soul and others in this life. It will all be done with love, not judgement because Judgement is a form of "hate"and lower consciousness.

You will eventually just know what you need to work on within yourself and they will guide you and help you achieve that.


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Originally Posted by boxcar
So tell me, Mr. Light, which are you: The wise man or the fool?
We are all Foolish and Wise at different times.

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Originally Posted by boxcar
God has "reserved" much more than a seat for me in heaven because God in Christ condescended and came down to earth to pay my personal sin debt!
You only hurt yourself with the belief that ONLY YOU and a FEW SELECT others have been saved. It is a form of hate for your fellow man. That hate in your heart does not serve you,nor God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Your "best friend" Jesus promised all his disciples:

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

KJV
What that means is that in Heaven, there are different levels (rooms) of consciousness. Some souls more advanced with God's love and some like you, not so advanced. The different rooms represent the different levels of consciousness in those beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
So, yes...Heaven is the last stop,
Not for you.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:57 AM   #9257
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If the bus is only in your mind then it is an illusion.
The bus coming down the street exists whether it is in your mind or not.
Good luck if you keep telling yourself that the bus is only an illusion in your mind.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:13 PM   #9258
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Only material knowledge gets flushed, not spiritual knowledge your soul uses to grow. That spiritual knowledge is privy only to your soul, not your head.
Why do you persist in being so ignorant of divine revelation!? With all that "love" you think you have in you, you only love the spiritual realm of Darkness and Death! The Word of God is not material knowledge. It is spiritual truth!

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
NASB

This is why it also written about the Word of God:

Isa 40:8
8 The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.

NASB

So no, my knowledge of God's Eternal Word will never pass away -- any more than the Eternal God himself could pass away!

Quote:
Jesus means that the meaning of his words will not pass away. You won't find it in words themselves in the afterlife.
But Jesus didn't say that. You're reading your illusions into the text.

Quote:
It's fact not drivel. What I said is that your heart is who you are and that love in your heart comes from God and is part of God. If you can't understand that then I pity you.
Your "religion" or "spirituality" or whatever you want to call it is not factual since it's all subjectively based on your personal feelings and experiences which cannot be seen or examined or assessed by others objectively. In other words, it's all subjective horse manure!

Also, what part of Jesus' words in John 5 didn't you understand that I quoted recently?

John 5:38-42
38 "And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. 39 "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive glory from men; 42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
NASB

You are just like these rebellious, unbelieving, arrogant, self-serving, pompous Pharisees who never believed Jesus' words -- and they didn't believe because they did not have the love of God in their dark, evil hearts. Just like them, neither do you have the eternal Word of God abiding in you.

Quote:
I could say the same about you. Judge not lest ye be judged.
What is my evil that I do? What is my sin? That I share Jesus' Message of Life with my neighbor? Sharing the gospel with my neighbor is an act of love.

Quote:
Their illusion was their "self righteousness" that they then enacted into reality.
But what is wrong with "self-righteousness"? Earlier you told us that sin itself is a mere illusion! Now you're telling us that our thoughts, words and deeds are illusions, too?

Moreover what can possibly be wrong with self-righteousness? What righteousness should they have sought? To what righteousness should they have subscribed, if not their own?

Quote:
Also what this incident showed is that if Jesus can forgive his murderers then he can forgive everyone because he knows they are under the influence of illusion. If they knew what they were doing they would become self tormented like Barabbas. But that self torment was Barabbas's birth into higher consciousness. It's called growth.
So how did Jesus' martyrdom (or did you change that to "sacrifice") on the Cross free people from their "illusions"? How does that work practically? What does his physical death have to do with our "illusions" that you say we have?

However, since Jesus unconditionally forgave his own murderers, this proves beyond a shadow of doubt that everyone is going to be forgiven when they die and live with God forever. No one on this planet has anything to worry about!

Quote:
Wrong. Helen Keller said The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision.

You are so superficial you do not understand when I talk of "ones path" that I am speaking spiritually, not materially.
A non sequitur. My analogy is valid since blindness does not equate to illusions. Neither the blindness itself or what cannot be seen are illusions.

Quote:
Understand this about sin. If there were no illusions there would be no sins. If there were no illusions,everything would appear as reality is. Divine Light and Love
No! If there were no depraved, evil hearts in this world there would be no sin! Hear what your "best friend" said:

Mark 7:21-23
21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
NASB

So, tell us: Is evil an illusion?

And just to make sure that you understand what Jesus is saying, he told the very same audience that they WERE evil!

Matt 7:11
11 If ye then, BEING evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children...
KJV

Jesus made a crystal clear statement about BEING. What his audience WAS in their very essence.

Quote:
You will judge yourself. What you did in this life will be made clear to you on the other side either by God, Jesus or other spiritual beings. They will only show you your impact on your soul and others in this life. It will all be done with love, not judgement because Judgement is a form of "hate"and lower consciousness.

You will eventually just know what you need to work on within yourself and they will guide you and help you achieve that.
Well, how cool is that!? No one has anything to worry about because everyone naturally thinks he is better than everyone else. Everyone naturally thinks he's a pretty darn good Joe.

Quote:
We are all Foolish and Wise at different times.
How could that possibly be!? Since you claim to know this life is an illusion -- that time is an illusion -- that you,then, by definition, must have transcended this material world and time. You must always be "wise" to be able to recognize at all times what is real and what isn't -- to always be able to distinguish between the two 24/7. You, therefore, must always be in a perpetual state of Wisdom (or what you call "enlightenment") because if you're not, then you are in no position to tell anyone what is real and what isn't.

Quote:
You only hurt yourself with the belief that ONLY YOU and a FEW SELECT others have been saved. It is a form of hate for your fellow man. That hate in your heart does not serve you,nor God.
How do I hurt myself? God's Word itself reveals this. I didn't select myself or anyone else. God does that. It is you, sir, who hate your fellow man because you do not obey Jesus' command to evangelize. And you don't obey him because you have no love for him. And you have no love for him because the love of God is not within you. (See again the John 5 passage above.)

Quote:
What that means is that in Heaven, there are different levels (rooms) of consciousness. Some souls more advanced with God's love and some like you, not so advanced. The different rooms represent the different levels of consciousness in those beings.
I thought you have escaped the world of illusions? The text I quoted does not teach what you say?

Quote:
Not for you.
As you yourself have said:

Quote:
...Judge not lest ye be judged.
Better work on removing all the planks from both your own eyes before judging me.

And besides, I thought a god who loves unconditionally let's everyone in his heaven? How could he not? What possibly could prevent him from allowing anyone into his presence? Did you not just get done telling us that Jesus [unconditionally]forgave his own murderers!? (Although how could your god not love the act of murder as much as he loves an act of charity, since your god is pure unconditional love who cannot hate anything? Therefore, what is there to forgive!?) But apart from this nasty problem, how doesn't that act of forgiveness guarantee everyone's entrance into heaven or the good life or whatever you want to call it, regardless of the life we live in this world? Explain that to me! If Jesus' unconditional love motivated his unconditional forgiveness, then how cannot that kind of love and forgiveness guarantee eternal bliss and happiness for all people, in the distributive sense, after death?

You have continually ducked this issue! It's time to put up or shut up with this "spiritual" drivel you keep spouting. It's time to poop or get off the potty already!
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:20 AM   #9259
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The bus coming down the street exists whether it is in your mind or not.
Good luck if you keep telling yourself that the bus is only an illusion in your mind.
If you say so Don Quixote.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:15 AM   #9260
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The Word of God is not material knowledge. It is spiritual truth!
Words can be altered, manipulated and misrepresented. Therefore they can never be spiritual truth. That is only available through experience.


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Your "religion" or "spirituality" or whatever you want to call it is not factual since it's all subjectively based on your personal feelings and experiences which cannot be seen or examined or assessed by others objectively. In other words, it's all subjective horse manure!
And that's the same argument atheists make against your experience. Try to be original.


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
You are just like these rebellious, unbelieving, arrogant, self-serving, pompous Pharisees who never believed Jesus' words -- and they didn't believe because they did not have the love of God in their dark, evil hearts. Just like them, neither do you have the eternal Word of God abiding in you.
I have an extremely close relationship with Jesus. But thank you for asking.


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What is my evil that I do? What is my sin? That I share Jesus' Message of Life with my neighbor? Sharing the gospel with my neighbor is an act of love.
There's nothing wrong with that. But you do it for all the wrong reasons. One is to prompt up your ego and the other is to condemn everyone to Hell. Not the PR Jesus would use today.


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But what is wrong with "self-righteousness"?
The answer is all around you. Everyone thinks they are right and where does that leave us? At eachother's throats. That's why Jesus said to Love your enemy.


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
So how did Jesus' martyrdom (or did you change that to "sacrifice") on the Cross free people from their "illusions"? How does that work practically?
For starters, Jesus showed by example that you can forgive your worst enemy, in Jesus's case, his murderers. That shows that the illusion of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is an illusion with a viscous cycle and the only way out of the illusion is through forgiveness.


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No! If there were no depraved, evil hearts in this world there would be no sin!
Evil comes from illusion.


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
So, tell us: Is evil an illusion?
Yes, Because it was created out of illusion. Evil needs good. It cannot stand on its own,has no light of its own. Good does not need evil.


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Well, how cool is that!? No one has anything to worry about because everyone naturally thinks he is better than everyone else. Everyone naturally thinks he's a pretty darn good Joe.
I never said anything close to the stupidity you just wrote. Reread.


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How do I hurt myself? God's Word itself reveals this. I didn't select myself or anyone else. God does that.
The reason I KNOW you are not "specially chosen" is because your ego obviously rules you and ego is the creator of illusion and the main barrier to God. That's also how it "hurts you".

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And besides, I thought a god who loves unconditionally let's everyone in his heaven?
Please try to keep the dialog accurate.

You said "So, yes...Heaven is the last stop" I said "Not for you" That does not mean you don't get into Heaven. It means its not the last stop.


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But apart from this nasty problem, how doesn't that act of forgiveness guarantee everyone's entrance into heaven or the good life or whatever you want to call it, regardless of the life we live in this world? Explain that to me!
Funny, you answered your own question in the next part with minor corrections.

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Jesus' unconditional love motivated his unconditional forgiveness, that kind of love and forgiveness guarantee eternal bliss and happiness for all people, in the distributive sense, after death
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:36 AM   #9261
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And the next time you think God "hates" realize that "hate" is not a quality of the Divine.

There needs to be a distinction between worldly love and worldly hate. They are opposites.

But there is no opposite for Divine Love because there is no Divine hate.

Divne Love is the reason for creation and existence and your life.

Also never forget God and Jesus's Love I will never leave you nor forsake you

When you experience this, you will break down and cry.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:21 AM   #9262
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And the next time you think God "hates" realize that "hate" is not a quality of the Divine.

There needs to be a distinction between worldly love and worldly hate. They are opposites.

But there is no opposite for Divine Love because there is no Divine hate.

Divne Love is the reason for creation and existence and your life.

Also never forget God and Jesus's Love I will never leave you nor forsake you

When you experience this, you will break down and cry.
Can you tell us how you know those words you just quoted above have not been "altered, manipulated and misrepresented"?

And why do you even quote since you have said: Therefore they can never be spiritual truth? Why do you quote worldly words and now pretend that they're spiritual?
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:43 AM   #9263
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Words can be altered,[ manipulated and misrepresented. Therefore they can never be spiritual truth. That is only available through experience.




And that's the same argument atheists make against your experience. Try to be original.




I have an extremely close relationship with Jesus. But thank you for asking.




There's nothing wrong with that. But you do it for all the wrong reasons. One is to prompt up your ego and the other is to condemn everyone to Hell. Not the PR Jesus would use today.




The answer is all around you. Everyone thinks they are right and where does that leave us? At eachother's throats. That's why Jesus said to Love your enemy.




For starters, Jesus showed by example that you can forgive your worst enemy, in Jesus's case, his murderers. That shows that the illusion of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is an illusion with a viscous cycle and the only way out of the illusion is through forgiveness.




Evil comes from illusion.




Yes, Because it was created out of illusion. Evil needs good. It cannot stand on its own,has no light of its own. Good does not need evil.




I never said anything close to the stupidity you just wrote. Reread.




The reason I KNOW you are not "specially chosen" is because your ego obviously rules you and ego is the creator of illusion and the main barrier to God. That's also how it "hurts you".



Please try to keep the dialog accurate.

You said "So, yes...Heaven is the last stop" I said "Not for you" That does not mean you don't get into Heaven. It means its not the last stop.


Funny, you answered your own question in the next part with minor corrections.
And herein is the CRUX of the matter in a nutshell. You don't believe God. Therefore you stand condemned as we speak! You are no different whatsoever from the Pharisees, which is why "your best friend" told them that their [spiritual] father is the devil in John 5!

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has (present tense!) eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (present tense) on him."
NASB

And,

John 6:47-49
47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 "I am the bread of life. 49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
NASB

And the reason the Jews' forefathers were judged by God and were condemned is because they did not believe him

Also, I supposed you're so smart, so enlightened, so ahead of the spiritual curve that you can discern which words in which passages have not been "altered, manipulated and misrepresented", since you have no qualms quoting those words and using them to argue when it is convenient for you to do so?

And if evil is also an illusion then your "best friend" was a blithering, blathering idiot.

And what or who created evil?

And if evil is a mere illusion, can you explain to us coherently how its antithesis (i.e. Good) is not also an illusion? Why can't it be said that "good and evil" are merely mental constructs that are extensions of our emotions, and a simply a convenient way we express our personal, subjective likes and dislikes? For example, I love asparagus; my wife hates the stuff. In other words, I find that veggie to be Good; but my wife Bad (i.e. NOT good!). (So, when my lovely, beautiful wife finds the veggie NOT so Good, did she create evil?)
And so it is with everything under the sun. Both Good and Evil are illusions -- just like you say Time is. Good cannot possibly be real apart from Evil.

Can you explain to us coherently how you can possibly know what good is apart from the existence of evil? How would you know what Light is apart from existence of Darkness? How would you know what wetness is apart from dryness? How would you know what cold is apart from heat? How would you know what kindness is apart from meanness?

And this brings me back full circle to your argument about Jesus praying for forgiveness for his murderers. You haven't answered my question: What was there to forgive, since your god loves (and therefore approves) of everything under the sun? If the Jews' act of murder wasn't evil, why did your "best friend" pray for their forgiveness? Normal people only forgive someone if an act that was committed against them is evil, sinful or bad. Or why is Jesus' Gospel, often called the "gospel of forgiveness"? Or why did Jesus preach to others to forgive? What are they to forgive -- people's illusions? If someone invades your home and murders your wife and children, you are supposed to forgive that person for having an illusion? Your wife and kids aren't really dead? Or were they just an illusion if the first place? Or the act of murder is neither good or evil?

Or since your god unconditionally loves everything under the sun, no matter what, explain to us how he can't love everyone's illusions.

And one final thing: Regarding the "stupidity" that you say I wrote: How so? You claimed that your god doesn't judge anyone -- that instead, we will all judge ourselves. My reply to your claim was that if that's the case, then no one has anything to worry about because virtually all people in the world naturally cut themselves quite a bit of slack, since most would judge themselves compared to what they see in other people around them. Other people's behavior is most often the moral standard by which people judge themselves. Therefore, the vast majority of people in the world will find themselves to be better or just as good as others. Now...if you don't believe this -- if you really believe my retort to your foolishness is stupid, I would suggest you start a poll thread and ask the good people here (good pun intended) to judge themselves. Ask them if they think they are Good or Evil human beings.

And by the way, the proof is in the eating. Do you remember how very hard you came down on Donald Trump a few weeks back? You judged him very harshly on his stand on illegal immigration. And by what moral standard, did you do that? YOURSELF! Your life. Your values. You were like the self-righteous Pharisee in the temple who pointed his arrogant snout high to the heavens to thank God that he wasn't a sinner LIKE the unwashed, low-life, wretch who was also praying right next to him.

So...take my challenge. Start a poll thread and ask people to judge themselves -- and then we'll find out which one of us is really stupid.

Oh yeah...and you still haven't answered me on how Jesus' martyrdom on the cross is of any practical value in helping people to ditch their illusions.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:40 AM   #9264
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:22 PM   #9265
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Has anyone else noticed that there seem to be quite a few religious ads here lately?
Since I made this observation the ads seem to have gone away.

There seems to have been at least one ad for a soft core porn site.

I guess that means this forum is fair and balanced.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:42 PM   #9266
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I'm not God.

That explains why I'm a conservative!

Trying to keep it simple.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #9267
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There seems to have been at least one ad for a soft core porn site.
This is fairly impossible, since Google Adsense wouldn't allow such an ad to be placed on their system in the first place...but whatever.

Maybe your definition of "soft porn" is more in line with someone like Boxcar?
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:03 PM   #9268
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This is fairly impossible, since Google Adsense wouldn't allow such an ad to be placed on their system in the first place...but whatever.

Maybe your definition of "soft porn" is more in line with someone like Boxcar?
If that's the case, you must be the hard version.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:56 PM   #9269
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This is fairly impossible, since Google Adsense wouldn't allow such an ad to be placed on their system in the first place...but whatever.

Maybe your definition of "soft porn" is more in line with someone like Boxcar?
It's gone now. It was a cartoon with a warning not to click on it if you might be offended.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:10 PM   #9270
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This is fairly impossible, since Google Adsense wouldn't allow such an ad to be placed on their system in the first place...but whatever.

Maybe your definition of "soft porn" is more in line with someone like Boxcar?
Like tree squirrels playing with their nuts?
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