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11-26-2018, 10:08 AM
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#661
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,237
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I did not see the cost stated in the article about the history of timing in the Olympics.
If there are any links to articles listing the cost of these, or any other, timing systems, please share.
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11-26-2018, 10:11 AM
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#662
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
Hand timed fractions and final time are reflected in the chart:
22.20 44.79 56.77
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As cj has noted, these fractions by claimers would be good enough to win the BC Mile. That's why we need a more accurate timing system like they use in the Olympics and even college track meets. That's why I posted links to sites that describe these newer methods.
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11-26-2018, 10:16 AM
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#663
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobphilo
As cj has noted, these fractions by claimers would be good enough to win the BC Mile. That's why we need a more accurate timing system like they use in the Olympics and even college track meets. That's why I posted links to sites that describe these newer methods.
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I believe those were from the 5f Del Mar turf race on Saturday. It didn't initially list the race as being hand timed but it does now.
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11-26-2018, 10:17 AM
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#664
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
I did not see the cost stated in the article about the history of timing in the Olympics.
If there are any links to articles listing the cost of these, or any other, timing systems, please share.
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One of the links has links to the different companies. I imagine the price would vary by where it's installed and the track would have to negotiate. If colleges can afford them, most race tracks could, especially if they want to get accurate times.
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11-26-2018, 10:25 AM
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#665
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I
How does anyone really know how well it is working in England? What is the benchmark?
Trust me, I'm asking lots of questions.
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I believe a couple of posters here are from England and I occasionally PM with one of them. I think he bets using sectional times (could be TPD data).
I will ask him when I get a chance or if he reads this thread he can respond here.
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11-26-2018, 10:40 AM
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#666
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobphilo
One of the links has links to the different companies. I imagine the price would vary by where it's installed and the track would have to negotiate. If colleges can afford them, most race tracks could, especially if they want to get accurate times.
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And there is the hundred dollar question. Do tracks really want to give out accurate times or information? I do not believe they do.
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11-26-2018, 10:53 AM
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#667
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobphilo
I believe a couple of posters here are from England and I occasionally PM with one of them. I think he bets using sectional times (could be TPD data).
I will ask him when I get a chance or if he reads this thread he can respond here.
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I'm sure it is considered good there since in the past most places didn't have sectionals. My concern is with the accuracy.
Quick example, if you say it is accurate 95% of the time within 0.20 seconds, that means a mile turf race could have something like this:
6f 1:11, could be 1:10.90 to 1:11.10
Final time of 1:34, could be 1:33.90 to 1:34.10
This means the last 1/4, which I think most would agree is pretty important for a turf race, could be anywhere in this range:
1:34.10 - 1:10.90 = 23.20
1:33.80 - 1:11.20 = 22.80
Is this good enough? I'd contend no way, no even close. Others may think differently. And keep in mind, that is only 95% of the time it is that accurate. The other 5% can really skew things.
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11-26-2018, 02:36 PM
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#668
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay68802
And there is the hundred dollar question. Do tracks really want to give out accurate times or information? I do not believe they do.
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Bingo.
I am sure they would love to give accurate times if it was free and someone else installed it for them
But accuracy from race tracks - Santa has a better shot at timing races properly.
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11-27-2018, 07:54 AM
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#669
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I'm sure it is considered good there since in the past most places didn't have sectionals. My concern is with the accuracy.
Quick example, if you say it is accurate 95% of the time within 0.20 seconds, that means a mile turf race could have something like this:
6f 1:11, could be 1:10.90 to 1:11.10
Final time of 1:34, could be 1:33.90 to 1:34.10
This means the last 1/4, which I think most would agree is pretty important for a turf race, could be anywhere in this range:
1:34.10 - 1:10.90 = 23.20
1:33.80 - 1:11.20 = 22.80
Is this good enough? I'd contend no way, no even close. Others may think differently. And keep in mind, that is only 95% of the time it is that accurate. The other 5% can really skew things.
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Perhaps we'll have to settle for these inaccuracies. After all, timing has improved from the days when races were hand timed to fifths of a second.
But I think not. Olympic downhill skiers going over 70 MPH can be timed to one millionth of a second and I have not heard of a single inaccuracy.
Horse racing in still in the stone age compared to other sports and draws more heavily on tradition than science. The technology is out there. We just have to follow the example of other sports.
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12-02-2018, 01:18 PM
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#670
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Races 2, 3, and 6 at Aqueduct Saturday were all badly mistimed. All were mile races on the dirt. It looks like it was remedied before the Cigar Mile as that race seems ok. All the other distances were timed fine.
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12-02-2018, 01:45 PM
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#671
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,105
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I figured they must have done something to the track between the 6th and 8th races. I left the 4th with the early races.
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12-02-2018, 02:23 PM
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#672
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk
I figured they must have done something to the track between the 6th and 8th races. I left the 4th with the early races.
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I haven't really done any figure work as I'm waiting to see what becomes of this. I'm sure I'd be safe using Trakus times but I'm holding off for now. They races I mentioned are wrong for sure, timed them from video.
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12-02-2018, 05:00 PM
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#673
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk
I figured they must have done something to the track between the 6th and 8th races. I left the 4th with the early races.
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I see what you mean now. I think the dirt track changed substantially after R4, even with the Trakus times used.
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12-03-2018, 08:27 AM
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#675
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,819
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Same crew ran a race at the wrong distance earlier in the year.
My question, with GROSS incompetence like this, who has been fired?
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