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11-16-2012, 04:29 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: texas
Posts: 6,312
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
It seems like Hostess has some serious entitlement issues.
They think they should be ENTITLED to suck the company dry, rack up debt, pay themselves and their executives, and enter into chapter 11 bankruptcy???
If you just look at the sequence of events without the propaganda, it looks an awful lot like they started this whole process in the beginning with the following INTENT:
1. get as much money out knowing that:
- a. we'll pay for it w/ pay/pension cuts or
- b. take advantage of Liquidation
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Not quite. The owners and lenders pumped a ton of money into the company after the last bankruptcy:
To allow Hostess to emerge from bankruptcy in 2009, Silver Point, Monarch, and the other lenders agreed to provide a new secured loan of about $360 million. They also forgave half of the existing $450 million of debt and exchanged the other half -- $225 million -- for payment-in-kind loans, a kind of financing typically used in high-risk situations. The loans had relatively high interest rates of 8% and 5% (reflecting Hostess's above-average default risk after bankruptcy). Thus, at the end of the first bankruptcy, Hostess came away not only with concessions from both lenders and unions but with $490 million of fresh capital ($360 million plus Ripplewood's $130 million) -- and Ripplewood's presumed hands-on operational expertise.
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/20...kies-bankrupt/
more:
As revenue declined, the company continued to burn cash -- in the second half of 2011, the rate was $2 million a week. The liquidity crunch forced Ripplewood in the early spring of 2011 to pump in $40 million more in return for more equity as well as debt that was subordinate to that held by Silver Point and Monarch. In August -- to save a company teetering on the edge of fiscal calamity and forced liquidation -- Silver Point, Monarch, and the group of other lenders put up an additional $30 million to see if a negotiated turnaround was possible.
If they started with the intent, as you say to "get as much money out", they did a shitty job considering they were pumping money in.
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11-16-2012, 04:38 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,999
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With all the anti union sentiment one would think this board's makeup is top heavy with owner/management.
Somehow, I doubt it. 
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11-16-2012, 05:15 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,429
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For 12 years I managed a group of non-union engineers in a company which had a unionized workforce in the factory, so yeah I had a first hand glimpse of the greedy corrosive destructive impact the union had. biggest bunch of whiners and babies you'll every see.
I left that company and went to a small non-union competitor about 13 years ago. we've survived and have grown. not surprisingly the old company shut it's doors about 5 years ago.
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11-16-2012, 08:03 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,021
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Off to the local grocery store to raid the Hostess display and sell them on eBay as any good capitalist would do. Check it out, boxes are selling between $10 and $20....
Who said the free market was dead? 
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11-16-2012, 10:03 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MILWAUKEE
Posts: 5,285
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DID you read that earlier post about how they were made?
__________________
Never tell your problems to anyone because 20% flat don't care and 80% are glad they are yours.
No Balls.......No baby!
Have you ever noticed that those who do not have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of always seem to know how to handle the money of those who do.
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11-16-2012, 11:21 PM
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#36
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
With all the anti union sentiment one would think this board's makeup is top heavy with owner/management.
Somehow, I doubt it. |
Weak minds love unions.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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11-17-2012, 01:08 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
The company was 100% at fault here.
The union did exactly what they were supposed to be doing.
It's called Darwinism. If some P.O.S. company can't stay competitive and continue to pay their Executives and still pay off their Debts well enough that they don't have to finagle through Chapter 11 and liquidation without significant pay-cuts to the employees, that is 100% on the COMPANY.
Is there blind hate because this company has had enough media impact to make the garbage they sell "an iconic American product" ?? Or is there blind hide because anything associated with unions makes us think of corrupt labor practices??
I don't get it.
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Are ya sure???? So would you be suggesting to just screw the company since they cant be profitable and control their executive pay? Let them fail? if so, I agree!!!!! By the way, did you see the USPS...??? A Failing company that can not remain competitive, pay off their debts, and continue to pay their execs hefty increases.......lmao
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/15/us-postal-service-loses-159-billion/
"Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe, for instance, earned a base salary of $276,840, but even without a bonus or incentive payout, his overall compensation came to $512,093, compared with $384,229 in 2011, according to regulatory filings.
Fueling the rise was the fact that his retirement account grew by $186,536. A 37-year employee of the Postal Service, Mr. Donahoe was paid $4.76 per hour during his first job as a postal clerk.
Meanwhile, two other executives — Ellis Burgoyne, chief information officer, and Mary Anne Gibbons, general counsel — also received hefty increases in their retirement plans.
In fact, Mr. Burgoyne’s retirement plan grew by more than $270,000, bringing his total compensation to $510,505, slightly less than Mr. Donahoe‘s."
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed.
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11-17-2012, 02:11 AM
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#38
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,786
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Oops
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11-17-2012, 07:43 AM
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#39
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Mike Schultz
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,234
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pandy
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Look at the ingredients list of many processed foods and you'll find all sorts of this crap! 
__________________
I attract money, I attract money...
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11-17-2012, 07:43 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,594
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I love these the most!
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11-17-2012, 08:11 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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This will make for some more entertaining discussion/debate...
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...es-149789.html
Basically want a bail-out from feds.... 
__________________
got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
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11-17-2012, 08:22 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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and course THE REAL cost of health care for idiots who support it...
http://www.examiner.com/article/walm...9-day-period-1
as Walmart knocks down most everybody to part time by Feb./13
Funny.....all these people striking....don't see the bottom line....what'd they think would happen...
__________________
got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
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11-17-2012, 09:23 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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We've talked about the nutritional aspect of Hostess cakes but in all fairness there are thousands of companies making millions selling products that can be classified as unhealthy. Lots of things are bad for you, especially in excess. So it may not have anything to do with that. I know when I was a kid it seemed like Hostess had a lot less competition in the snack cake/sweet segment.
I feel bad for the employees who didn't want this.
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11-17-2012, 09:40 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MILWAUKEE
Posts: 5,285
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HEY pandy, I love those things as well.....and no I am not looking into what is in them  .....besides my teeth
__________________
Never tell your problems to anyone because 20% flat don't care and 80% are glad they are yours.
No Balls.......No baby!
Have you ever noticed that those who do not have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of always seem to know how to handle the money of those who do.
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11-17-2012, 09:50 AM
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#45
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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An 8% or 32% doesn't really matter. It would only postpone the inevitable. This has been worse run company over the last few years since Carly was running HP. The whole operation has the smell of Bain-type move. The brand names maybe worth than company. I guess we shall see when they sell them.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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