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Old 11-09-2012, 09:39 AM   #31
Dahoss9698
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
I promised I would only bite at your shit but once...

This is the mature way to handle it, the way it was intended. The man isn't screaming for the federal government to change to adopt to his views, whether you agree with them or not. He has realized that his ideals differ from what the citizens in his state are gravitating towards and is instead seeking out a state that more closely resembles his ideals. That's how it is supposed to work in this country. Just think of all the lives that could have been saved if people had stopped screaming about how they needed Obamacare or would die tomorrow and instead just got in the @#%ing car and drove to Massachussetts.
But you didn't really answer the question. You're not CJ's Dad, so you can't answer for him, but it's certainly a fair question.

Morals or not, how does gay marriage impact his life in any way? If two guys or two women live together in his neighborhood and instead of just living together, they are now able to get married, how will his life be changed at all?

To me, it just reeks of more intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit his mold. Which is certainly a pattern with the more enlightened here.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
But you didn't really answer the question. You're not CJ's Dad, so you can't answer for him, but it's certainly a fair question.

Morals or not, how does gay marriage impact his life in any way? ...
I'm pretty sure you know how I feel about it personally, but I'll go over it again, I don't really care what anyone does.

That was just for the record and to show that just because I feel that way, it doesn't mean I expect anyone else to.

But, no, I cannot speak for cj's dad. I will however give you my interpretation of the answer. I was going to actually answer like this, but it was stillriledup, so I just kept it simple for obvious reasons.

He lists it in the context of many other things. It's a symptom, not the disease. He's talking about all of the reasons that show that his state is changing into something different. I didn't necessarily see that the "gay marriage" issue itself was a huge problem for him, but rather that it was just one of several indicators that the state was becoming more liberal -- and obviously he's not interested in living in and supporting a liberal state.

That's more or less, in the entire context, the way I perceived it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:01 AM   #33
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I'm pretty sure you know how I feel about it personally, but I'll go over it again, I don't really care what anyone does.

That was just for the record and to show that just because I feel that way, it doesn't mean I expect anyone else to.

But, no, I cannot speak for cj's dad. I will however give you my interpretation of the answer. I was going to actually answer like this, but it was stillriledup, so I just kept it simple for obvious reasons.

He lists it in the context of many other things. It's a symptom, not the disease. He's talking about all of the reasons that show that his state is changing into something different. I didn't necessarily see that the "gay marriage" issue itself was a huge problem for him, but rather that it was just one of several indicators that the state was becoming more liberal -- and obviously he's not interested in living in and supporting a liberal state.

That's more or less, in the entire context, the way I perceived it.
I'll wait for CJ's Dad to answer, but appreciate your response.

I thought it was VERY telling it was the first one listed, but whatever. The country as a whole is becoming more liberal. The American people have grown tired of the conservative platform and voted that way on Tuesday.

Change is tough for many to accept, but that's life man. This isn't the 1960's America anymore. Some are happy with the way we have progressed as a country and some aren't. Those people are certainly welcome to move or do whatever they have to do.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:02 AM   #34
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Remember, no online betting in Texas. It sucks.
Not in Arizona either, a Red State, and this has always puzzled me. Have considered moving there, but this no ADW has given me pause. From what I have been able to find out, the legal Arizona otb sites are very small and primitive compared to the big California ones, mostly bars and restaurants, things like that.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:04 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

He lists it in the context of many other things. It's a symptom, not the disease. He's talking about all of the reasons that show that his state is changing into something different. I didn't necessarily see that the "gay marriage" issue itself was a huge problem for him, but rather that it was just one of several indicators that the state was becoming more liberal -- and obviously he's not interested in living in and supporting a liberal state.

That's more or less, in the entire context, the way I perceived it.
I could not have said it better. Gay marriage will not impact me, but I do not have to approve of it. More folks voted aye than nay, so be it. I happen to believe it is immoral and I certainly am entitled to my opinion.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:08 AM   #36
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I happen to believe intolerance for people based on race, sex or sexual orientation is immoral. I'm certainly entitled to my opinion.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:10 AM   #37
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:18 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BlueShoe
Not in Arizona either, a Red State, and this has always puzzled me. Have considered moving there, but this no ADW has given me pause. From what I have been able to find out, the legal Arizona otb sites are very small and primitive compared to the big California ones, mostly bars and restaurants, things like that.
Furthermore, unless you happen to live in a densely populated area (Phoenix, Tucson), you may not have a site within an acceptable driving distance to warrant sitting at a table and watching one television while some barmaid harangues you into meeting the drink minimum.

A state like Arizona was made tailor made for account wagering. You don't have to wear a helmet to ride a motorcycle and can pack heat in the grocery store, but they want to constrain the ability to wager based upon narrow interpretations of idiotic premesis like "racing enclosure". Meanwhile, there's a casino pretty much anywhere you travel by highway. So rather than capitalize on the sporadic settlement nature of the state and the reclusive propensities of its property loving citizens, the racing hierarchy (aka TuP) attempted to force those that wanted to gamble to inconvenience themselves by unsuccessfully forcing them to seek out and attend one of the TuP owned OTB sites.

It's an amazing reality that speaks to the actual intent of long-term viability of the premier racetrack and its ownership that they have willingly allowed this preposterous idea to continue and actually stood in the way the one time removing its shackles was initiated.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
I happen to believe intolerance for people based on race, sex or sexual orientation is immoral. I'm certainly entitled to my opinion.
Good for you. I hope you have longs so you can pat yourself on the back.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:31 AM   #40
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I happen to believe intolerance for people based on race, sex or sexual orientation is immoral. I'm certainly entitled to my opinion.
What if that sexual orientation is pedophilia ( towards children)?

Do you tolerate that too?

Is it immoral if you don't tolerate pedophilia?
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:35 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
Furthermore, unless you happen to live in a densely populated area (Phoenix, Tucson), you may not have a site within an acceptable driving distance to warrant sitting at a table and watching one television while some barmaid harangues you into meeting the drink minimum.
Would you care to comment on the quality of any of listed sites and make a recommendation? Looked at a few of them on Google Maps in a few places such as Prescott, Payson, and Cottonwood, and was not impressed, they looked like dumps.
www.turfparadise.com/otbfinder.php
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #42
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What if that sexual orientation is pedophilia ( towards children)?

Do you tolerate that too?

Is it immoral if you don't tolerate pedophilia?
Kind of a dumb question, isn't it? Of course I don't tolerate pedophilia. Isn't there a big difference between pedophilia and being a homosexual?

I'd ask if you tolerate stupidity, but based on your posts, you not only tolerate it, but practice it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BlueShoe
Would you care to comment on the quality of any of listed sites and make a recommendation? Looked at a few of them on Google Maps in a few places such as Prescott, Payson, and Cottonwood, and was not impressed, they looked like dumps.
www.turfparadise.com/otbfinder.php
I'll be honest, for most of my AZ life, I have rarely strayed off of the paths that lead to the various racetracks. I've been a racetracker here for most of my life and have been pinned to those areas. Only recently have I stopped "living" at the racetracks, and so really, I've only been to a handful of the sites - those in the Prescott area, Flagstaff, and the Phoenix area. Your assessment is pretty much on the mark of those. Antelope Lanes in Prescott Valley is the one that I've spent the most time at by far, and it most closely resembles an actual OTB in the sense that there are several monitors and a dozen tables to sit at.

But it is literally in the bar, albeit not your typical southeastern, cowboy hat, country music 24/7 bar. It isn't awful, but it is generally almost vacant, doesn't open until after a third of the east coast track cards have commenced (like most sites), and just simply doesn't feel like an OTB. And it's the best of those I've been to - most of them are more like the old Keno games that used to exist in bars - most of the people playing are there to drink and hold up the one line to the teller trying to figure out how to play a three horse trifecta box and then can't understand why it costs six bucks.

I used to spend quite a bit of time there. I have never had an active wagering account even before they were effectively ended in the state by the legislation. I RARELY go anymore, primarily out of spite and a desire to NOT support being treated like a lemming any longer by the idiot that runs the show. There used to be a bit of comradrie amongst the devout players, but many have walked away, opting to go to the casinos, or have simply died.

It's hard for me to characterize those that I've been to as "dumps", because I have very low standards, but most people would I assume, and plenty of those I know do consider them "dumps". Compared to the teletheatres in New York that I was used to before moving here, they are dumps. And most are just as you describe, tiny little areas with a monitor or two and a single clerk, embedded within another facility.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:16 AM   #44
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Kind of a dumb question, isn't it? Of course I don't tolerate pedophilia. Isn't there a big difference between pedophilia and being a homosexual?

I'd ask if you tolerate stupidity, but based on your posts, you not only tolerate it, but practice it.
A subset of homosexuals are pedophiles - a small percentage of Priests have shown us that. (Of course a subset of straights are pedophiles as well.)

My point is that your sweeping blanket statement about being so tolerant looks stupid when we start looking at the realities of specific situations.
Tolerance of sexual orientation has to have some boundaries, as does tolerance of some religious practices.

Your problem is that you come to this board not to discuss issues, but to snipe at people who are discussing issues.
I was simply testing where your boundaries end.
Obviously you reject pedophilia as do I and most of the board members here.
Thank God.
But in your earlier statement you are rejecting the boundaries set by others re: homosexuality and in that sense you are guilty of the same intolerance that you are accusing them of.
Unfortunately, you don't get that.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #45
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Thanks for the candid comments about the Arizona sites, they pretty much confirm what I have been able to gather from other sources.
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