Handicapping Study Groups in NYC Area?

[kjb320]

I’m a relative young handicapper (28), who has been playing “The Sport of Kong’s” now for roughly 5 years. Thanks to a few large trifecta scores I’m slightly up over my ‘capping career. This year though I’ve only had one big winning day (I hit 6 trifectas and 17 exacta’s using Brisnet’s prime power rating as a guide), but only ended up the day $400 because the biggest trifecta payout was only $145. My point i’m trying to make though is the game still bearable for the little guy like me putting less than $10k a year through the windows and not getting the 8%+ rebates the big guys are getting allowing them to turn solid bets into overlays for them with the rebates and underlays for me with the much smaller rebate?

I know the answer is going to be a resounding YES which leads me to my original reason for posting this thread. I live in Brooklyn and do most of my betting at NYRA tracks and was wondering if there is a group or groups of you out there willing to take a younger player under there wing? My handicapping skills are already decent; I think my biggest problem is betting on to many boxed exacta’s that are in reality underlays (mainly because of the rebate problem listed above). Also the computer players are pushing down the payouts on the exotics, and I need a quick crash course in how to write algorithms to identify the contenders from the pretenders. So once again if there are any groups or individuals in the NYC area willing to help me take my game to the next level it would be much appreciated. I’ve read all the major books already and am a hard working student; I think with a little direction I could be pushing $100k+ through the windows, earning higher rebates, and become one of the few who do this for a living. If you don’t feel comfortable posting a reply in this forum, but are willing to take me into your group/syndicate or teach me individually please PM me. I hope some of the old times here will take me under their wing and help me reach my goals- Thanks in advance!

[RunForTheRoses]

I see there have been no replies so I'll post something. I think just hanging around here you will learn stuff. try to wean the posters efficacy. There's a ton of stuff here, most good. Unfortunately, I think there is a certain amount of experiential knowledge you need to get. Also, for a less than 10K a year player it will be very difficult to make a profit, you can go on winning streaks and enjoy that but with the track takeout's and dwindling fan base...good luck.

If there is a PA get together such as at Saratoga you should try and go. Maybe that will help.

[Afleet]

I live no where close to NY. I would concentrate on the the big weekends and bet 2-3x what you would normally bet. KY Derby weekend, Belmont's big days, BC etc. I agree w/the previous poster, also.

[GMB@BP]

I live no where near NY.

You have been doing this 5 years so I am sure you have a good feel.

If I had to do it over again, and starting in 2018, I would learn to find horses without using the top rated pace and speed figures. Those horses will win, but if you can mix in the ones that do beat the figure horses then there is money to be made.

[thaskalos]

Did he really mean to call us "old-timers"?

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Did he really mean to call us "old-timers"?

Unfortunately, I had a lot of friends and and acquaintances who didn't make it as far as me and I'm still in my prime earning years.

[kjb320]

I meant “old timers” in a respectful way. Also I don’t know any guys my age handicapping; or at least I don’t really see anyone my age when I go to the track. Also in my opinion age=wisdom in this game, so like I said I want to learn as much as I can from anybody with wisdom to share

[sonnyp]

try to get up the thruway next month to Saratoga. if nothing else, you'll see horse racing in a setting it was meant to be. besides that, the whole town lives and breaths horses. the sales, the morning workouts, the breakfast bull shit sessions, afternoon races and late night cocktails are among the finest to be had. you'll find plenty of old-timers hangin around with lifetimes of experience who will be very willing to have you pick their brains. all kinds of seminars etc. enjoy if u can

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

try to get up the thruway next month to Saratoga. if nothing else, you'll see horse racing in a setting it was meant to be. besides that, the whole town lives and breaths horses. the sales, the morning workouts, the breakfast bull shit sessions, afternoon races and late night cocktails are among the finest to be had. you'll find plenty of old-timers hangin around with lifetimes of experience who will be very willing to have you pick their brains. all kinds of seminars etc. enjoy if u can

Thorograph and Jonathan Hardoon (separately) have weekend seminars . Siro's has morning stuff going on everyday. Good idea.

[Valuist]

Learn physicality. Edges to speed and pace figures, along with trips, have been lessened over the years. But no algorithm can take physicality into account.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Learn physicality. Edges to speed and pace figures, along with trips, have been lessened over the years. But no algorithm can take physicality into account.

Paper players, esp. the ones who don't go to the track in person, often miss the nuances.

To any fledgling, I would say the best education is to pick a track geographically close, and GO THERE as often as possible.

A lot of the best cappers I know are people who rode their bicycles over to the back fences at Oaklawn when they were pre-teens, and hung off the fence watching workouts in the early am and then watch the races the same way.

If you can't size up a horse and their conformation, paper data isn't going to be very useful because you really aren't learning anything that is truly "self-generated"..... what you've done is develop "skill" at reading somebody else's data. So there is always the threat that you become "dependent" on paper instead of your own knowledge and eyes.

2x a month, during live meet, I show up at Oaklawn WITHOUT ANY PAPER DATA. (By about the middle of the meet, I know a bit about the horses, trainers and jockeys from previous months, and I can test myself to see if I can "eyeball" the winners, and more important, eyeballl the big longshots to fill out EX and TRIs.

[clicknow]

Having the right eyes on the day.... The year Animal Kingdom won the KY derby, he stepped out onto the track and it looked like he was "surveying" his soon-to-be "to the victor belongs the spoils." It was just that obvious. If you can eyeball something like that, you run to the ATM.

It doesn't happen often enough because I'm not THAT GOOD. But once in a while, I am.

[JustRalph]

If you’re going to play NYRA.......

Watch and read everything Andy Serling says.

[kjb320]

Thanks for the responses; I definitely am going to look at some of the seminars that are put on during the Saratoga meet. If anyone has info on a particular one I’d be interested in learning more (if you want to PM on that issue I understand).

I really liked the go to the track more advice; I only actually made it once to Belmont this year (sadly it wasn’t even stakes day). Also do any of you earning a living doing this find having a partner to compare with valuable in this business? I ask because I have one particular partner already in mind; I can’t convince him though that going to the track and doing this is a better use of our time than playing in the stock market. Maybe he is right though with the takeout rates being as high as they are and the competition being so good (some of the major computer betting syndicates for example). The longer I play this game (5 years now as mentioned above) I realize the exotics market becoming really more efficient than when I first started; payouts on Tris and supers seem to be way more efficient with not as many overlays.

[Suff]

I'd echo Ralph's suggestion. I'm watching Andy Serling and David Aragona break down Belmont 6/30/18 card on NYRA.com. The way they dig into races is really interesting and informative. Andy Serling is entertaining with a war chest of experience. A free account at NYRA.com includes streaming of their show and the card.