Racehorse ownership

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

You make it sound like an owner is either an idiot butting in or has to sit back in his idiocy. The reality is that there are things that most owners can have a valid opinion on. They can usually see when a jock is giving bad rides, or if a horse should race at a certain level. The longer youre an owner and the more you learn, then you can add valuable input in a number of places. An owner must be wise enough to know when he should give input or even possibly overrule a trainer and when he has to trust in his trainer's experience and opinion. It's a give and take. Trainers aren't infallible, even the ones at the very top of the sport.

The qualifier is the use of the word "most"..
Look, I only can go by my personal experiences. I cannot and will not speak to those of which i do not know.
As far as "valid" opinions are concerned. I agree to a certain extent. If the owner is experienced in the business, knows the animals, knows the racing lingo and has some expertise, then by all means opine away.
Otherwise, You get the picture.
I have dealt with the public in three different industries over the last 25 plus years. Each in service type occupations. And if there is one thing that is certain, people that hire others to perform services are steadily becoming more high maintenance and more demanding. And there is this faction of people that believe if they even if they are hiring a professional to perform work that they themselves cannot do themselves, they insist on running or at least trying to run the job themselves. Micromanage, if you will.

[Big Peps]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

You make it sound like an owner is either an idiot butting in or has to sit back in his idiocy. The reality is that there are things that most owners can have a valid opinion on. They can usually see when a jock is giving bad rides, or if a horse should race at a certain level. The longer youre an owner and the more you learn, then you can add valuable input in a number of places. An owner must be wise enough to know when he should give input or even possibly overrule a trainer and when he has to trust in his trainer's experience and opinion. It's a give and take. Trainers aren't infallible, even the ones at the very top of the sport.

Many owners are idiots and also just because you can read a racing form doesn't make you an expert horseman. I just think it takes some time to build a relationship in any business. If you have the right people training your horses, there is a ton of dialogue about the direction your horse is going and plenty of room for owner input- ABSOLUTELY. You should never have to "overrule" your trainer. Disagree at some point, sure but the biggest conversations are about "dropping" a horse to claiming levels or to continue to drop lower. And yes, everybody can see bad rides, I doubt most trainers don't see the same thing. Most know who the best jocks are for what horses as it's their job to know. Some also have a goto rider and you as an owner should know who that is, because guess what if you don't like the jock don't use the trainer. The jock is the trainer's business. It's bad form, IMO to start telling a trainer who and who not to ride. It's just flat out irritating. * Look at RunHappy disaster, owner goes through trainers like underwear and look who he was left with at the end. Hey-- Mattress Mack has a ton of money, have at it. The shame is, what RunHappy could have accomplished with an experienced horseman--we will never know. Guy spent millions to find a horse like that over the years, finally found one and guess what he had pissed off every good trainer in the business or at least had such a bad rep that nobody would go near him even with that horse

I just think you are painting what has to be an adversarial picture. There is a ton of discussion and sure owners have input but you can also agree to disagree sometimes and move on. It's give and take, much like any other successful business or personal relationship. That said, if you want all the power and want to dictate, I am sure there is a guy or gal out there for everybody, but I don't think they will be very good. Most people who believe in what they are doing will only eat so much shite. At the end of the day, sure you are the owner but always best to find trainers that are on the same page. If aren't patient don't hire a trainer who is known for training babies because they will get pissed and so will you.

Just my 2 cents and I have built some homes for uber wealthy people, I don't really care how much money you have, I am just not going to be disrespected when it comes to my profession and I think many trainers feel the same way regardless of how wealthy an owner is or how many horses they own and good for them.

Owners need to refrain from adult temper tantrums and get the right people training their horses.

[Big Peps]

Originally Posted by Stoleitbreezing

I joined a partnership a couple of years ago and initially purchased 4% of the horse at 2% units at $400 each. I paid a monthly assessment for training and keeping the horse boarded and fed. It ranged from $10 dollars per share or $40 dollars when she was at the farm and not training to $25 dollars per share when she was in training/racing.

I went into it to embrace the owner experience and take full advantage of my owner status. For that reason I bought into a horse that was based in Illinois near my home. The only local horses that were available on the partnership website were 2 YOs and after an injury setback my filly missed the races at 2. When it was time to debut her at 3 she was actually the peoples choice, but after flashing decent speed faded to last. She would continue racing in the maiden claiming ranks thereafter and would hit the board or finish mid pack in most of her races. As a 4 YO and still a maiden she ran off a nice string of a 4th, 2nd, and two 3rds and actually paid her way a few months. However, we would never meet in the winner circle.

I wanted so bad for her to win I would routinely view the condition book to find out her possible races or handicap the competition when it was time to run. While it was disappointing she wasn't a quality filly I took solace in the fact she wasn't completely hopeless and usually made a decent account of herself when she ran.

Why Be an Owner
I received my owners license each of the two years she ran and thoroughly enjoyed the perks of being an owner. I would drive to the track whenever I wanted and used the horsemen lot to park and make entry into the park using the horsemen entrance. I would also drive to the backside to visit my horse and take videos or pictures of her as well as discuss her progress with our trainer. I made it out to all, but two of her 12 career races and enjoyed seeing her in the paddock and was on the rail for each stretchcall.

Our trainer was a solid, experienced, horseman and was very personable and responsive when I arrived at the barn or sent him an occasional text. We would also watch the reply of her races after it was run and discuss her trip and next race options. He was an honest trainer and told it like it was. He also mentioned our horse had a breathing problem and would make a "noise" after the race or in the mornings sometimes. This likely affected her ability to "close the show" or stretchout to routes despite her long frame.

Sadly, on the stetchout to a mile she received some ankle or knee injury and the decision to retire her was made. The expense to wait for her recovery and return to the races as a 5 YO were too great given her modest ability. I sort of figured this may happen given the partnership's stance on campaigning horses who don't pay there way after a decent amount of time. She was given away for free to a thoroughbred retirement foundation without a standout pedigree.

The partnership may make a claim this summer and as long as I'm financially able to I'll probably take another small swing at that elusive winner's circle photo.

I started out in one of the bigger racing partnerships, I enjoyed it to a certain extent but it's tough on the trainer if there are 12 owners on one horse, always found the heads of these partnerships to be like financial management people, they take all the glory when the horse wins ( market up) and deflect to the risk of owning a horse (market down) when they don't, wasn't for me but the trainer treated my wife and I like gold when we went to the fairgrounds to visit. Trainer is very well known and 100% class act. Again just my experience. Partnerships want your money because that's how most are making a living. Also reminds me of these coaches for my kids club soccer or hockey teams.

Met my first full time trainer on the rail at the fairgrounds, was just getting started as was I, bought the guy a beer he had a young family much like I did,we hit it off and we bought a 2 year old together at OBS the spring of that year. Horse was one of my favorites of all time, awesome filly, won 3 races before a knee chip slowed her down, sold her as a broodmare prospect as a 4 year old. Loved that filly, laid back in the morning all business in the afternoon

[1st time lasix]

pay your money...hire a trainer you respect....and get out of the way.... the way of the world in ownership. Hopefully your speculation will pay off---- but most times it does not. The ongoing bills from all sources tend to eat up the prize money. And remember--that no matter how well-bred and trained-they all get hurt eventually. Beautiful strong noble creatures that are all so very fragile.

[FakeNameChanged]

My Brother-in-law who was the golf-pro at North Hills CC in Philly bought into a small partnership for an Allowance horse with his brother, who was the majority owner. I believe my BIL said it cost him $5-10K, but it may have been higher. The horse always ran in Alw's and won a couple or placed in several others, always contending. At this time about six years ago, my sister still did not know of his owning a racehorse.
While at a family golf outing in Connecticut and in apparent good health, he had a major heart attack. During the week afterwards, helping my sister to make arrangements, I had the "honor" of explaining about Ron owning a racehorse to my sister as his brother was shrinking into the background. She said to me, "You Knew?" I had no-where to hide.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Whosonfirst

My Brother-in-law who was the golf-pro at North Hills CC in Philly bought into a small partnership for an Allowance horse with his brother, who was the majority owner. I believe my BIL said it cost him $5-10K, but it may have been higher. The horse always ran in Alw's and won a couple or placed in several others, always contending. At this time about six years ago, my sister still did not know of his owning a racehorse.
While at a family golf outing in Connecticut and in apparent good health, he had a major heart attack. During the week afterwards, helping my sister to make arrangements, I had the "honor" of explaining about Ron owning a racehorse to my sister as his brother was shrinking into the background. She said to me, "You Knew?" I had no-where to hide.

Wow!

[Fager Fan]

We've gone way off topic. I think the most helpful posts give opinion on the guy's site and whether you'd buy a horse online.

[green80]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

We've gone way off topic. I think the most helpful posts give opinion on the guy's site and whether you'd buy a horse online.

It's like buying anything else online, may or may not be a good deal. The main issue here is how reputable is the seller.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Big Peps

I started out in one of the bigger racing partnerships, I enjoyed it to a certain extent but it's tough on the trainer if there are 12 owners on one horse, always found the heads of these partnerships to be like financial management people, they take all the glory when the horse wins ( market up) and deflect to the risk of owning a horse (market down) when they don't, wasn't for me but the trainer treated my wife and I like gold when we went to the fairgrounds to visit. Trainer is very well known and 100% class act. Again just my experience. Partnerships want your money because that's how most are making a living. Also reminds me of these coaches for my kids club soccer or hockey teams.

Met my first full time trainer on the rail at the fairgrounds, was just getting started as was I, bought the guy a beer he had a young family much like I did,we hit it off and we bought a 2 year old together at OBS the spring of that year. Horse was one of my favorites of all time, awesome filly, won 3 races before a knee chip slowed her down, sold her as a broodmare prospect as a 4 year old. Loved that filly, laid back in the morning all business in the afternoon

I have owned all of my horses on my own not one partner(wife and kids). In 2011 we got into breeding and away from claiming. It was the worst decision I ever made, combine the downturn in the economy with trying to manage 3 mares and 3 new foals each year(every horse was broken with Tony Everhard) with zero revenue took its toll. In 2013 we got back into the claiming game. Luck is a key word when you claim(anyone telling you differently is full of it), get the trainer involved, let him/her help pick out the horse and give them the necessary leeway to train and do what they do best, their job. If you think you are going to go to the Breeders Cup after your first claim, dreaming big isn't illegal but it isn't reality.
Many on here have very good comments and opinions, calling an owner an idiot is just pure stupidity. The owner is the one taking the risk, without him/her you have nothing.

[green80]

The cheapest and best way for a newcomer to get into horse ownership is to claim one. You usually can run the horse back in a couple of weeks and you know what kind of runner you have, barring any injuries. If you buy an unraced horse or yearling, you will have spent much more than the claiming price of a horse when/if you make it the the starting gate and you may or may not have a decent runner. You stand about the same chance of injuries with an unraced horse or a claimer. If you can't stand the loss of the claiming price and a couple of months training, then horse ownership is not for you. I have done it both ways and the results have been much better with the horses I've claimed.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I have owned all of my horses on my own not one partner(wife and kids). In 2011 we got into breeding and away from claiming. It was the worst decision I ever made, combine the downturn in the economy with trying to manage 3 mares and 3 new foals each year(every horse was broken with Tony Everhard) with zero revenue took its toll. In 2013 we got back into the claiming game. Luck is a key word when you claim(anyone telling you differently is full of it), get the trainer involved, let him/her help pick out the horse and give them the necessary leeway to train and do what they do best, their job. If you think you are going to go to the Breeders Cup after your first claim, dreaming big isn't illegal but it isn't reality.
Many on here have very good comments and opinions, calling an owner an idiot is just pure stupidity. The owner is the one taking the risk, without him/her you have nothing.

boy I can relate to that.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by green80

The cheapest and best way for a newcomer to get into horse ownership is to claim one. You usually can run the horse back in a couple of weeks and you know what kind of runner you have, barring any injuries. If you buy an unraced horse or yearling, you will have spent much more than the claiming price of a horse when/if you make it the the starting gate and you may or may not have a decent runner. You stand about the same chance of injuries with an unraced horse or a claimer. If you can't stand the loss of the claiming price and a couple of months training, then horse ownership is not for you. I have done it both ways and the results have been much better with the horses I've claimed.

I got two words for you Buyer beware!
Having someone who is knowledgeable and can see old battle wounds and how the horse is coming into the paddock before you decide to drop that coveted claim slip is worth its weight in gold. How many times do you see a racing partnership or individual owner drop a horse for less than they recently bought him for? Just look at this board it is full of posts where trainers both good and bad do this a lot. I agree with you 100% I love the claiming game, it is full of surprises you can get a Lava Man for 50k or you could get someone elses problems.

[Big Peps]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I have owned all of my horses on my own not one partner(wife and kids). In 2011 we got into breeding and away from claiming. It was the worst decision I ever made, combine the downturn in the economy with trying to manage 3 mares and 3 new foals each year(every horse was broken with Tony Everhard) with zero revenue took its toll. In 2013 we got back into the claiming game. Luck is a key word when you claim(anyone telling you differently is full of it), get the trainer involved, let him/her help pick out the horse and give them the necessary leeway to train and do what they do best, their job. If you think you are going to go to the Breeders Cup after your first claim, dreaming big isn't illegal but it isn't reality.
Many on here have very good comments and opinions, calling an owner an idiot is just pure stupidity. The owner is the one taking the risk, without him/her you have nothing.

Well said, I might buy 1 yearling every year and that's it, two years ago I had 4 on my own and a partner with one, it was too much. I waited and waited and waited and waited. 3 of them won as two year olds, one of them hasn't started yet and one has a couple starts and have been waiting for a LA bred turf race at Fairgrounds since November, yes November she can barely stand on dirt. I own 50% with the trainer with this horse and he is actually probably more pissed than I am.

I actually enjoy the claiming game, probably have claimed 20 horses in the past 2-3 years, never been stung too bad other than a maiden I went after and usually have only had most for 3-4 races before they get claimed again. I actually love the old war horses, just something about them. I have one that I will keep for my daughter to ride or compete with when he retires even if I lose him I will claim him back at some point, an absolute peach. he must have been treated very well by the people who trained him over the years, he was claimed 5-6 times and is a gentle giant. I took him off the track for 4-5 months he needed a break but will be back.

I am leaning more and more to claiming only, you can claim younger horses as well and it's really less risk than buying even a 2 year old or yearling, you may never get a stake horse but it's a bit safer in a game loaded with risk. (If you have a good claiming trainer with his or her ear to the ground who is always watching.. I have won 8 way shakes where I thought I couldn't lose running them back and been the only one on a claim where I was left scratching my head and had success there too, you just never know.

I claimed a second time starter a few weeks ago that broke his maiden in the race, gelded him and think the horse has some nice potential but who knows.

[Twin Double]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I got two words for you Buyer beware!
Having someone who is knowledgeable and can see old battle wounds and how the horse is coming into the paddock before you decide to drop that coveted claim slip is worth its weight in gold. How many times do you see a racing partnership or individual owner drop a horse for less than they recently bought him for? Just look at this board it is full of posts where trainers both good and bad do this a lot. I agree with you 100% I love the claiming game, it is full of surprises you can get a Lava Man for 50k or you could get someone elses problems.

I hate handicapping this situation, because I'm a cynic and I usually assume it's because someone's trying to steal a purse.

[Big Peps]

Originally Posted by Twin Double

I hate handicapping this situation, because I'm a cynic and I usually assume it's because someone's trying to steal a purse.

Jacobson the master at this...nobody does it better. Still say best claimer in the business is Maggi moss, she is damn good at or maybe its Tom Amoss, either way they make a hell of a team