Dog Racing

[Inner Dirt]

Wonder what everyone's experience and opinions are of dog racing? If this has been discussed recently or in the wrong place the moderator is welcome to vaporize this thread. I used to go to Agua Caliente frequently and stay for the dogs after betting the horses, made a couple trips to Phoenix Greyhound Park (they no longer hold live racing) and after 10 years away from the dogs caught the last 4 races this past Saturday night at Wheeling Island WV (350 miles from my home)

Almost from the beginning I took the thoroughbreds seriously, I bought Picking Winners when I was 18 and started making my own Beyer's by the age of 19. Ever since then I spend 2-5 hours handicapping a card
of thoroughbreds.

Even though over my lifetime I have bet at least 50 or so dog cards I just handicapped out of the program and took 5 minutes or less to make my selections per race. I bet small and never dreamed of making a big hit. The goal was to at least break even, relax and have fun. Saturday nights 4 races was typical, total handicapping time 15 minutes, put $50 through the tote machines and got $61 back.

So does anyone seriously handicap the dogs? Trip notes, track variants, speed figures? Anyone have a big score. Anyone win with regularity?

[cj]

Never played dogs but Larry Collmus did take me to Wonderland once.

I think PA has some experience in that arena.

[TexasDolly]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Wonder what everyone's experience and opinions are of dog racing? If this has been discussed recently or in the wrong place the moderator is welcome to vaporize this thread. I used to go to Agua Caliente frequently and stay for the dogs after betting the horses, made a couple trips to Phoenix Greyhound Park (they no longer hold live racing) and after 10 years away from the dogs caught the last 4 races this past Saturday night at Wheeling Island WV (350 miles from my home)

Almost from the beginning I took the thoroughbreds seriously, I bought Picking Winners when I was 18 and started making my own Beyer's by the age of 19. Ever since then I spend 2-5 hours handicapping a card
of thoroughbreds.

Even though over my lifetime I have bet at least 50 or so dog cards I just handicapped out of the program and took 5 minutes or less to make my selections per race. I bet small and never dreamed of making a big hit. The goal was to at least break even, relax and have fun. Saturday nights 4 races was typical, total handicapping time 15 minutes, put $50 through the tote machines and got $61 back.

So does anyone seriously handicap the dogs? Trip notes, track variants, speed figures? Anyone have a big score. Anyone win with regularity?

Yes, years ago in LV we often played a few races after the horse races finished. Weight can be used(large dogs are at a disadvantage in Marathons),break habits,post position, CLASS structure is precise based on ITM finishes and probably the best factor for handicapping. Dogs moving up and down should be studied closely for either bets or passes.
The dog pools were manipulated at the track and the books took it on the nose when playoffs on favorites shot up. This led to bet size restrictions and eventually most of the race books quit booking them.
TD

[Marshall Bennett]

Lacks too much human element. No jockeys and little training unlike horses. If you're gonna race dogs and bet, why not a variety of other animals?

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Very negative from me. From a very good source (a race dog trainer), I was told that dog breeding farms are dog graveyards.

Because dogs breed litters instead of single foals, like horses, dog breeders make "confirmation" decisions soon after birth and kill those they do not believe will not make it because the breed makes lousy pets.

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by Jess Hawsen Arown

Very negative from me. From a very good source (a race dog trainer), I was told that dog breeding farms are dog graveyards.

Because dogs breed litters instead of single foals, like horses, dog breeders make "confirmation" decisions soon after birth and kill those they do not believe will not make it because the breed makes lousy pets.

For several years I transported retired racers around the country between tracks, greyhound adoption groups, and adopters. They are some of the sweetest animals you can find and do make great pets as long as you don't expect to call them back to you after you release them from the leash. They must always be contained by fences. They also need to "discover" sliding glass doors, mirrors, and numerous other things that other breed puppies grow up with. Other than that they like to sleep a lot. We adopted three of them over the years. It's like having cheetahs stalk around the house with their graceful movements. All in all, it was a very positive experience for us. That said, I'm not a fan of the breeder/trainers and their treatment of these animals.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Lacks too much human element. No jockeys and little training unlike horses. If you're gonna race dogs and bet, why not a variety of other animals?

It is too tough to build excitement for the contest of which of two fleas will jump from a caulk circle first....but in principle it is sort of the same deal...people love to wager on uncertain outcomes....

[Inner Dirt]

Wow, after going for the first time in a decade I did a little reading up. I did read that 25% of the retired racers don't find homes, but nothing about selective slaughtering of the runts of the litters on breeding farms. I figured a lot of the negative press was typical PETA type propaganda. I guess not.

As an animal lover who will stop and get a box turtle out of the street, I can't understand how someone who makes a living off of animals could be mean to them. Had a friend back in Cali who was in his 60's and had not earned much out side income in decades. His wife made a nice
living training show and jumping horses. This afforded a nice well equipped ranch. Jon pretty much did a bunch of hobbies and did minor assistance to the business by transporting a horse here and there. The guy wasn't mean to the horses, but had a low opinion of them, said they were low intelligence, ugly beasts. I guess he did not care that through his wife they afforded him an upper middle class life style.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Wonder what everyone's experience and opinions are of dog racing? If this has been discussed recently or in the wrong place the moderator is welcome to vaporize this thread. I used to go to Agua Caliente frequently and stay for the dogs after betting the horses, made a couple trips to Phoenix Greyhound Park (they no longer hold live racing) and after 10 years away from the dogs caught the last 4 races this past Saturday night at Wheeling Island WV (350 miles from my home)

Almost from the beginning I took the thoroughbreds seriously, I bought Picking Winners when I was 18 and started making my own Beyer's by the age of 19. Ever since then I spend 2-5 hours handicapping a card
of thoroughbreds.

Even though over my lifetime I have bet at least 50 or so dog cards I just handicapped out of the program and took 5 minutes or less to make my selections per race. I bet small and never dreamed of making a big hit. The goal was to at least break even, relax and have fun. Saturday nights 4 races was typical, total handicapping time 15 minutes, put $50 through the tote machines and got $61 back.

So does anyone seriously handicap the dogs? Trip notes, track variants, speed figures? Anyone have a big score. Anyone win with regularity?

I stayed a few times for the evening cards at AC after the thoroughbreds also. I got crushed every time.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Maybe they should let horses race like dogs unassisted by jockeys...just make the side rails solid and higher...open the gates and let them run... Whichever crosses the finish line first WINS....I bet there would be far less breakdowns, no inquiries, and no funny business...the dominant ones could be pitted against each other, and the follower types against other followers...you wouldn't have to pay jockeys or agents so more purse for trainers/ owners...round up all the mustangs that would otherwise starve out in the desert and create a new sport....mustang racing!

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Maybe they should let horses race like dogs unassisted by jockeys...just make the side rails solid and higher...open the gates and let them run... Whichever crosses the finish line first WINS....I bet there would be far less breakdowns, no inquiries, and no funny business...the dominant ones could be pitted against each other, and the follower types against other followers...you wouldn't have to pay jockeys or agents so more purse for trainers/ owners...round up all the mustangs that would otherwise starve out in the desert and create a new sport....mustang racing!

Of course you forget the fact that male horses will kill each other when left to their own devices, so probably not the best of ideas.

[1st time lasix]

I generally do my simulcast horse wagering in the clubhouse of an established dog track. As such...I have witnessed numerous races over the years and become friendly with some serious players. I personally only make one play per week...when a track must "force out" a twin tri or tri-super pool with a carryover. ***** Here are my insights...The take-outs are high. The pools are becoming smaller over time. Early speed is an important variable. There is a huge element of chaos between the starting box and the first turn. The printed information in the standard programs is not always accurate enough to assist with the slight nuances of racing habits. The very best players take notes of the first fifty yards of each race they watch. {replays} Class level, inside or outside tendencies, age, size, and trainers all have a possible say in the outcome of any one race.... but it is difficult to say that any factor outweighs early speed. {as long as the key entry does not have regular stamina issues, The return is not worth the risk you take....it has no real appeal to me. Most Florida tracks would end their money losing race operations if they could maintain their poker rooms, simulcast and slot operations.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Of course you forget the fact that male horses will kill each other when left to their own devices, so probably not the best of ideas.

But that's part of the action!

While these two champions are killing each other off, these two other shrewd ones are hustling toward the finish line to complete a boxcar exacta!

By the way, I've never seen two horses go at it in a life and death struggle....

Given the rather plebian and bloodthirsty tastes of the populace, this might actually appeal to them!

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

But that's part of the action!

Given the rather plebian and bloodthirsty tastes of the populace, this might actually appeal to them!

I haven't seen it recently but I remember Kennedy Road at SA (I think) decades ago "savage" the horse attempting to pass him so it actually does happen.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

But that's part of the action!

While these two champions are killing each other off, these two other shrewd ones are hustling toward the finish line to complete a boxcar exacta!

By the way, I've never seen two horses go at it in a life and death struggle....

Given the rather plebian and bloodthirsty tastes of the populace, this might actually appeal to them!

Are you SRU's back up profile that was created in case he got knocked off by the mob? Not a knock....but a compliment.