Michael Dickinson on Zenyatta..

[tzipi]

One of the detractors is the man who trained Zenyatta's mother, Vertigineux.

"She's very overrated," said Michael Dickinson, now retired as a trainer and marketing his Tapeta racing surface around the world. "She's been beating up on nothing. Tell me a good horse she has beaten. The other horse [Rachel] would destroy her.

"What's she beaten this year? Life and death to beat some horses you and I can't name. She's the most overrated thing."

Shocking considering he trained her mother. This was before the BC run but I never thought much of that field(IMO) but still,I didn't think this would be what I would be reading when I saw,"Dickinsons take on Zenyatta" Even though those fields before were not much at all,I think the talk is a little harsh from a man who trained her mother. They are usually on the side of the horse. I mean,I love Rachel but I still think Zen is a talented girl.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by tzipi

One of the detractors is the man who trained Zenyatta's mother, Vertigineux.

"She's very overrated," said Michael Dickinson, now retired as a trainer and marketing his Tapeta racing surface around the world. "She's been beating up on nothing. Tell me a good horse she has beaten. The other horse [Rachel] would destroy her.

"What's she beaten this year? Life and death to beat some horses you and I can't name. She's the most overrated thing."

Shocking considering he trained her mother. This was before the BC run but I never thought much of that field(IMO) but still,I didn't think this would be what I would be reading when I saw,"Dickinsons take on Zenyatta" Even though those fields before were not much at all,I think the talk is a little harsh from a man who trained her mother. They are usually on the side of the horse. I mean,I love Rachel but I still think Zen is a talented girl.

Good objective analysis, as his economic interest certainly lies with promoting "alternative" dirt surfaces. But Dickinson has always spoken the truth, and he continues...

[Robert Fischer]

It's yet another good example of a prominent, high quality, skilled figure in a related field not knowing what the hell he is talking about.

It is a good example of why this game remains beatable. It is also a phenomenon that is extremely common in the sports world, and I imagine in any field where subjective nuanced opinions come into play.

to be most fair
a) - "technically" we are talking opinions and therefore "technically" this opinion couldn't be "proven" wrong

b) it may be fascinating to hear Dickinson wax on and on about his opinions, and I am judging him from one snippet of a comment I happen to disagree with on a highly debated subject.

[Jackal]

Michael Dickinson is like most horse trainers. "a horse trainer is the only person on earth you would trust with a million dollars, but wouldn't invite home for dinner."

I have heard that one myself a few times.

[Cardus]

Unless you are thinking about whatever impact Dickinson's words might have on Vertigineux' value -- which I suspect is zero at this point -- why must Dickinson speak only well of Zenyatta?

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Michael Dickinson is like most horse trainers. "a horse trainer is the only person on earth you would trust with a million dollars, but wouldn't invite home for dinner."

I have heard that one myself a few times.

Out of all professions for that saying huh? If some were still alive. Bobby Frankel,Zito,Linda Rice,H Allen Jerkens,Shullhofer,Michael Matz,Richard Mandella,etc,etc,along with many others are allowed over for dinner anytime Sorry just don't get the saying and how it goes with trainers or Dickinson IMO.

[matthewsiv]

She is a far better horse than he was a racehorse trainer.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by matthewsiv

She is a far better horse than he was a racehorse trainer.

Well his opinion on Zen aside,Dickinson trained the Da Hoss to win the 1996 and 1998 Breeders' Cup Mile despite the horse only having one race in between due to injury. Unbelievable training feat. Also trained the first five finishers in the 1983 Cheltenham Gold Cup.
Holds a couple World Guiness Book of Records as for one he trained 12 winners in one day! That's insane. He also won tons of stakes races over the years in America. The guy was one hell of a trainer.

[Steve R]

Originally Posted by matthewsiv

She is a far better horse than he was a racehorse trainer.

It appears you know absolutely nothing about Dickinson's legendary status as a trainer achieved even before he came to the US. He is arguably among the greatest trainers in the history of English racing.

Winner of Racing Post poll of the 100 greatest training feats in the last 100 years (for training first 5 finishers of 1983 Cheltenham Gold Cup)

Elected to the British Steeplechasing Hall of Fame in its inaugural year

Champion steeplechase trainer by numbers and purse money won, 3 successive years

In the Guinness Book of World Records four times, including holding the world record for most winners in one day – 12

Won the King George VI Steeplechase, 3 successive years

Pacemaker International National Hunt trainer of the year, twice

Won the Breeders Cup Mile, 1996 and 1998, with Da Hoss, the second after a two-year layoff

[toussaud]

Originally Posted by matthewsiv

She is a far better horse than he was a racehorse trainer.

wanna get away?

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by toussaud

wanna get away?

[Rise Over Run]

What about his training job with A Heuvo?

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by Rise Over Run

What about his training job with A Heuvo?

"What made A Huevo an intriguing horse in the DeFrancis was that the race was his third start off a layoff — a layoff of four years. After his win in the West Virginia race, A Huevo had suffered various injuries. Dickinson gave him two years off to recover but was dissatisfied. So he gave him another year. Still not ready. One more year? Yup, that does the trick."

Brings him back after all that and wins the DeFrancis. After A Huevo won by 2 lengths,race caller Dave Rodman said,"Another Michael Dickinson miracle!" Yup, Michael Dickinson doesn't know horses or horse training

[miesque]

Originally Posted by tzipi

"What made A Huevo an intriguing horse in the DeFrancis was that the race was his third start off a layoff — a layoff of four years. After his win in the West Virginia race, A Huevo had suffered various injuries. Dickinson gave him two years off to recover but was dissatisfied. So he gave him another year. Still not ready. One more year? Yup, that does the trick."

Brings him back after all that and wins the DeFrancis. After A Huevo won by 2 lengths,race caller Dave Rodman said,"Another Michael Dickinson miracle!" Yup, Michael Dickinson doesn't know horses or horse training

I don't think what you quoted was exactly what was being referred to

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...r-w-va-classic

A Huevo, a 9-year-old gelding owned by Mark Hopkins and winner of the 2003 Frank J. De Francis Memorial Dash (gr. I) was euthanized after being pulled up soon after the start and vanned off following the West Virginia Breeders' Classic Stakes the evening of Oct. 8. The son of Cool Joe had been the 1-2 favorite in the nine-furlong race at Charles Town Races and Slots

His start in this year's West Virginia Breeders' Classic came after more than a 10-month layoff. He had not started since finishing 11th in the Fred Hooper Handicap (gr. III) at Calder last Dec. 18.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by tzipi

This was before the BC run...

You seem to just gloss over this VERY important little set of words in your initial post.

I think most people would agree that prior to the BC, Zenyatta had beaten little in her four trips to the plate in 2009.

So why would his words shock you, given the fact that they were made pre-BC?