Curlin

[russowen77]

Actually , today they throw out a good stud and 100 mares do show up. Johannesburg covered 195 this year at 60k for example. Curlin will get a good two year run like the rest of the boys now until they see how he actually throws. Baring fertility problems.

The DP profile numbers are an easy way to see how well bred a horse is and where most of the good breeding comes. ALL it is is the number of exceptional stallions in the bloodline and what type of speed/stamnia ratio they have. It reads left to right-fastest to longest.

Ghostzapper does have Baby Zip as dam. She is throwing sprinters for the most part. The money is going longer.

If they race Curlin next year his owners have very deep pockets.

[Semipro]

Originally Posted by Tom

He got beat by a filly!

Yeah to bad she couldn't run in Classic Curlin may have actually had some competition!!!!!!!!!!!

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by Tom

He had nothing to prove by running the Belmont.

Nothing to prove? At the time of the belmont he had as many loses as wins on the year. Doesn't sound like a horse with "nothing to prove"

Originally Posted by Tom

SS is my choice for HOY. My opinion. He did more all year. Culin - HOO (Horse of October) or HOOF (Horse of only Fall)

As aburd as this sounds judging by how curlin trounced him in the classic, what makes it even more absurd is the fact that the "horse of october" won more races in the spring and earned more money than street sense.

Look we get it you have a love obsession with street sense and are not a fan of curlin. Afterall you did call him a "one race wonder" after the haskell and said he'd never be a factor in a g1 again. Your description of SS was he "wins the big ones." Now after Curlin trounces SS in the biggest one of them all, you want to ignore the results so you can continue to hold your incorrect pre-race opinions. Some people never (or refuse) to learn.

[Tom]

He got beat by a g-i-r-l

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by Tom

He got beat by a g-i-r-l

AKA "I realize that I was wrong all summer about my rankings of the 3yo, but I am not man enough to admit it. I will continue to make pointless arguments for my summer rankings but when someone points out the obvious flaws in them, I will post "He got beat by a girl" followed by an icon."

[Semipro]

Originally Posted by Tom

He got beat by a g-i-r-l

Okay you want to be childdess g-i-r-l g-ir-l bow legged squirrel ugliest monkey in whole wide world. pants on fire

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by gIracing

1. Ghostzapper was at 200k a pop when he hit the shed and covered 112 mares in 06. Also, Curlin is not as "brilliant" as Ghostzapper was.. 5 races of over a 120 Beyer in a row at different distances. Still holds the record for BC Classic time in 1:59 flat, in other words as great as curlin was saturday, Ghostzapper still would have been looking at him in his rear view mirror[/size][/size][/size]

I don’t disagree with you about Curlin’s stud potential as oppose to Ghostzapper’s stud potential, but I do disagree with you about their ability on the race track going a route of ground (1 ¼ miles or further).

From my past posts on PA you will realize that I am a big fan of the ‘Zapper, but in a race with legitimate pace at a distance of ground, I would give Curlin the edge. Remember in the BC Classic Curlin covered his last ½ mile in 48.76 seconds on an off track.

I am not implying that the ‘Zapper wouldn’t be a tough hombre for Curlin, but again going long I will take Curlin.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Tom

And after the Preakness, is it not possible SS's connections felt the same way?

If you believe that then you have logically reduced the saliency of your argument. For example after the Haskell, Curlin’s connections might have said: “The connections of Street Sense were wise to give him a rest; we should do the same if we want to be ready for the fall campaign.”

[russowen77]

The fact of the matter is that no one knows either animals true potential as a sire yet. Success on the track does not mean success in the barn. I don't think anyone looked at animals such as Danzig, Storm Cat, etc and thought they would be world beaters as studs. The list of great horses that failed is even longer. At this time is does not even matter.

Many of the horses today are bred mainly by the name recognition the horse buying public recognizes. If you have some big wins then you get the first season free unless there is fertility issues. The buyers don't even know if the stallion is going to be preponderite yet or how he throws in regard to conformation. However that won't keep over 100 buyers or groups from shelling out the cash for them. Ghostzappers stud fee just went up to 150k. That is based on just his first crop's looks. There is no other data yet. No matter how great a stallions track success was his fees will rapidly be judged just on merit. That is gambling. The first year or two are not.

My take on the P. Ghostzapper has a DI of 3.67. His dam line is out of Tri-jet and is heavily speed influenced. He had the one win at 10f but all else was shorter. He is an outcross so one really is clueless but he sets up to be a fine stallion for sprinters and milers.

Curlin has a DI of 4.00 but won at 10f twice and came in second at 12. He is also an outcross. I prefer his 2nd Sire and Dam sire over Ghostzappers. To me he sets up to breed the same fine sprinters and milers as does Ghostzapper.

Saying all that it really does not matter what anyone thinks at this time. Hopefully in a few years we will all know. With outcross stallions one never knows. Storm Cat bred some awesome runners who have just been medicore stallions. Time will tell.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Cratos

If you believe that then you have logically reduced the saliency of your argument. For example after the Haskell, Curlin’s connections might have said: “The connections of Street Sense were wise to give him a rest; we should do the same if we want to be ready for the fall campaign.”

I'm not the one who started the "ducking" BS. I simply said I thought SS was still HOY and some others just couldn't accept that. I am not arguing anything - I really could a rat's ass what anyone else here thinks. I just kept posting he got beat by a gir to see how many would keep arguing a stupid point. There were a few!

I still say SS did more all year.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by Tom

I'm not the one who started the "ducking" BS. I simply said I thought SS was still HOY and some others just couldn't accept that. I am not arguing anything - I really could a rat's ass what anyone else here thinks. I just kept posting he got beat by a gir to see how many would keep arguing a stupid point. There were a few!

I still say SS did more all year.

Thank you sir, your point is well taken and there wasn't any intent (at least on my part) to offend you.

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by russowen77

Ghostzappers stud fee just went up to 150k. That is based on just his first crop's looks.

Ghostzapper's stud fees did not go up. The first year his stud his fee was 200k and that was reduced for the 2007 season to 150k

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Cratos

Thank you sir, your point is well taken and there wasn't any intent (at least on my part) to offend you.

No offense at all - just having some fun. I'm not that serious to be offended by horse talk.

Sometimes, it's hard to tell from just words and no presonal contact - believe me, I took this whole thread very lightly.

[russowen77]

Originally Posted by ghostyapper

Ghostzapper's stud fees did not go up. The first year his stud his fee was 200k and that was reduced for the 2007 season to 150k

Oh man. I stand corrected. So that 8.5 mil the first couple of years was actually 17 mil. One starts to understand the owners dream. Considering the number of years he could possibly stand that is better than hitting the lottery. You even get to write a lot of it off. Lord Lord.

[gIracing]

Originally Posted by russowen77

Actually , today they throw out a good stud and 100 mares do show up. Johannesburg covered 195 this year at 60k for example. Curlin will get a good two year run like the rest of the boys now until they see how he actually throws. Baring fertility problems.

The DP profile numbers are an easy way to see how well bred a horse is and where most of the good breeding comes. ALL it is is the number of exceptional stallions in the bloodline and what type of speed/stamnia ratio they have. It reads left to right-fastest to longest.

Ghostzapper does have Baby Zip as dam. She is throwing sprinters for the most part. The money is going longer.

If they race Curlin next year his owners have very deep pockets.

J' Berg is a horrible example. J' Berg is by Hennessy, who is by Storm Cat, so he has that going for him, but even moreso, He was an undefeated 2YO champion, and even more so than that, this time last year he had 3 Grade 1 calibur horses on the 2YO sceen already. of course he is going to have mares lined up for his services, he's proving it.

Curlin hasn't proven anything

As far as Ghostzapper is concerned.. I"m not sold. at least at 150k I'm not sold. Baby Zip has now produced 3 stallions (City Zip, Ghostzapper, Arostiocrat), rest of the family hasn't done a hell of lot since lil e tee, in the shed or on the track

If they race curlin next year it will be because it's fincnailly prudent to do so. 10 million split 3-4 ways is not going to change any of their lives, they are already rich.

Oh man. I stand corrected. So that 8.5 mil the first couple of years was actually 17 mil. One starts to understand the owners dream. Considering the number of years he could possibly stand that is better than hitting the lottery. You even get to write a lot of it off. Lord Lord.

and you know what is even better about that? that Frank actually brought Ghostzapper BACK for another campiagn where he trounced the field in the met mile, knowing good and well how much money he was leaving on the table. he never got his due for that. We talk about how many horses get sent to stud and when they don't we don't say jack. that move costs Him a good 15 million in revenue, because for 1 race, that was an entire seasion he wasn't in the shed.