Curlin

[46zilzal]

One hears about a race with an UNHEARD of pace but all one has to do is look up the Arlington Classic of June 25, 1966 and a horse called IMPRESSIVE ran these fractions, only to get caught by Buckpasser at the wire.

22 1/5, 43 1/5, 1:06 4/5, 1:32 3/5

It has all been done before... It would really help people to understand the limits of the breed have been met. Only drugs are changing things.

[46zilzal]

Most people couldn't name three match races let alone the match races within races....The nice thing to know is these same people are wagering!!!

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

IF there was a bias it was a PATH bias not a STYLE bias.
IF there was...

Well we've already proven pretty clearly there wasn't so you can go back to reading your charts from 1934. Obviously you have nothing insightful to say concerning saturday's races.

[gIracing]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Most people couldn't name three match races let alone the match races within races....The nice thing to know is these same people are wagering!!!

Too funny!

like i tell people.. I don't hav eot beat the track, I have to beat YOU..which I think I can do.

[NYPlayer]

It was the worst track for the BC that I can remember. It was an absolute mud fest. I don't think any anylyst could have predicted that Street Sense, who had never finished out of the money, would wind up fourth beaten by ten lengths, or that Lawer Ron, the champion of Saratoga, would be beaten by better than 16 lengths. The race figured much more competitively than the results do tell. After viewing the earlier races, I included Curlin on top in triples along with the other top horses, and used Awesome Gem in third. All tickets hinged on Street Sense running second or better. The mud beat Secretariat.

Curlin took over in the Classic in a commanding way and drew off. And while I do think the wet track randomized the results a great deal (and not just for the Classic), it's likely Curlin would have won anyway (although the margin might have been narrower). Someone in the NY Post actually wrote that those running behind Curlin had no excuses. The dried mud on my gloshers suggests otherwise.

With such a performance, it's difficult to imagine that Curlin will not win the three yo title and horse of the year, especially winning a race that traditionally has been dominated by older horses. Street Sense will have his place in the history books, being the first 2yo champion to win the Derby, but there's only one 3yo title and two very good three year olds. Nevertheless, let every vote be counted!

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by gIracing

Too funny!

like i tell people.. I don't have to beat the track, I have to beat YOU..which I think I can do.

I doubt we would even play the same courses as I stay away from the mainstream ones.

[peakpros]

Originally Posted by Tom

I do not agree Curlin should be crowned so soon.
I still think SS has a validc alim to HOY
While watched SS show up from last years BC right thorugh this years, he performed in all the big ones. Culrin was a good - not as good-good not-as good. HOY means of the year - SS was at the top of the heap the whole year. Curlin was beaten by a filly who could not come back and win and that has to be a mjor factor, IMHO.
you get beat by a girl, get outta town.

"by a filly..."

you make it sound like she was an allowance level afterthought...

too funny....

IMO SS would have been no better than third in that race....Oh yeah...we will never know...he ducked out of that one.....

[GaryG]

Curlin HOY - case closed

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by NYPlayer

It was the worst track for the BC that I can remember. It was an absolute mud fest. I don't think any anylyst could have predicted that Street Sense, who had never finished out of the money, would wind up fourth beaten by ten lengths, or that Lawer Ron, the champion of Saratoga, would be beaten by better than 16 lengths. The race figured much more competitively than the results do tell. After viewing the earlier races, I included Curlin on top in triples along with the other top horses, and used Awesome Gem in third. All tickets hinged on Street Sense running second or better. The mud beat Secretariat.

Curlin took over in the Classic in a commanding way and drew off. And while I do think the wet track randomized the results a great deal (and not just for the Classic), it's likely Curlin would have won anyway (although the margin might have been narrower). Someone in the NY Post actually wrote that those running behind Curlin had no excuses. The dried mud on my gloshers suggests otherwise.

With such a performance, it's difficult to imagine that Curlin will not win the three yo title and horse of the year, especially winning a race that traditionally has been dominated by older horses. Street Sense will have his place in the history books, being the first 2yo champion to win the Derby, but there's only one 3yo title and two very good three year olds. Nevertheless, let every vote be counted!

A classic waffle post by 1 of street sense's biggest supporters. On the 1 hand you admit curlin was the best horse yet you sprinkle your post with digs about the track playing a role in the results.

The track randomized the results? The 2 perceived best 2yo won their races, the best sprinter won, and the 2 best 3yo finished 1-2 in the classic. Does not seem "random" at all to me.

I know this is difficult because you have an attachment to the horse but street sense is just not as good as curlin or hard spun, plain and simple.

You chose to ignore his "ok" performance in the jim dandy because it was only a prep for the travers. Then after his narrow win in the travers against grasshopper, your answer was his trainer did not have him setup for a big effort because he didn't need one to win. After his loss to hard spun in the kc classic, you said it was only a prep and nafzger did not have him at all geared up.

Now after he finished off the board in classic you want to blame the condition of the track, with no valid evidence, other the fact that you need some reason to excuse a horse you touted as a superstar getting trounced by 2 horses who you thought were not on the same level as him. Face it both Hard Spun and Curlin have matured into better animals than street sense. Its as simple as that.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

I would say Hard Spun is one of three damn good colts.....and considering the company..........there is nothing to be ashamed of.


I love a front runner who stares them in the eye and dares them to come with him.........makes the races a hell of a lot more fun.............

Hard Spun is a horse that was born in the wrong year. In some ways he is a lot like Medaglia d’Oro in terms of distance limitation. Medaglia d’Oro when he was in training was virtually unbeatable up to the 1 1/8 mile distance, but past that point he became very vulnerable. Hard Spun at races 1 1/8 miles and below in distance was equally in command winning 7 of 9 and in both the Derby and the BC Classic which were run at the longer distance of 1 ¼ miles he fell short for the win, but held second place very easily.

On a related note this generation of 3yos was very good and I think they will be talked about as a group for a long time with the likes of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Any Given Saturday, Curlin, and RTR.

[NYPlayer]

Originally Posted by ghostyapper

A classic waffle post by 1 of street sense's biggest supporters. On the 1 hand you admit curlin was the best horse yet you sprinkle your post with digs about the track playing a role in the results.

The track randomized the results? The 2 perceived best 2yo won their races, the best sprinter won, and the 2 best 3yo finished 1-2 in the classic. Does not seem "random" at all to me.

I know this is difficult because you have an attachment to the horse but street sense is just not as good as curlin or hard spun, plain and simple.

You chose to ignore his "ok" performance in the jim dandy because it was only a prep for the travers. Then after his narrow win in the travers against grasshopper, your answer was his trainer did not have him setup for a big effort because he didn't need one to win. After his loss to hard spun in the kc classic, you said it was only a prep and nafzger did not have him at all geared up.

Now after he finished off the board in classic you want to blame the condition of the track, with no valid evidence, other the fact that you need some reason to excuse a horse you touted as a superstar getting trounced by 2 horses who you thought were not on the same level as him. Face it both Hard Spun and Curlin have matured into better animals than street sense. Its as simple as that.

Well, I admit it. I'm probably the biggest Street Sense supporter there is, at least on this board anyway. It was hard for me not to as he kind of supported me in a way. I bet him to win the Juvy last year, and when he won by open lengths at 17-1, I thought he could indeed develop into a special horse if the trainer took care of him. Nafzger had what I considered was the perfect plan (a long winter break followed by two prep races), and when I saw that Street Sense was 8-1 in the Derby future pool, I took that bet as well. Now Street Sense's Derby is living history. So you can see, Ghosty, how a guy can fall in love with a horse can't you? As for Street Sense at Saratoga, his Travers sheet number (0") was better than I originally thought, and he sure was beating more horses this summer than Curlin was.

The 2007 BC is now history as well. Of the 11 BC races only three favorites won. Europe's finest horse (and the heaviest favorite of the day) finished out of the money. Four BC races delivered winners at odds of 8-1 or better plus two from Saturday's undercard, making it a weekend of generally unanticipated results. Perhaps the randomness was a result of so many good horses competing together, but I still think that the track, which had been soaking for days, was severely compromised.

[ghostyapper]

Originally Posted by NYPlayer

how a guy can fall in love with a horse can't you?

Fall in love? Yes. Call him the best horse no matter what happens on the track and always make excuses for him? No

Originally Posted by NYPlayer

The 2007 BC is now history as well. Of the 11 BC races only three favorites won. Europe's finest horse (and the heaviest favorite of the day) finished out of the money. Four BC races delivered winners at odds of 8-1 or better

Clearly what happened on the turf and Dylan Thomas's flop has no relation to what took place in the dirt races. Every single year the BC has major upsets and the favorites have a low win percentage. Because it happened this year as well doesn't make it a result of the track.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by peakpros

"by a filly..."

you make it sound like she was an allowance level afterthought...

too funny....

IMO SS would have been no better than third in that race....Oh yeah...we will never know...he ducked out of that one.....

Yeah, like Curlin ducked out of the Travers.

[russowen77]

The math of what they risk to run Curlin again. Ghostzapper is a good example. Ghostzapper covered 111 mares his first season with 84 live foals at 100K a pop. 8.4 mil for the first season vs 3.5 mil for his career and without the expenses of racing. He covered 117 mares this year so one could reasonably expect another 8.5 mil in the bank for his efforts this year.

Curlin made more money and in my opinion is better bred. Ghostzappers DP is 7-1-6-0-0 (14). Curlin is 9-3-8-0-0 (20). He should command even more attention from the breeders. The math gets real sick real fast folks. He could easily cover 175 mares next season at 150k per. Not only can they break down but they can also die prematurely. I would not only want the cash but I would also want to make sure he is in the gene pool.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by russowen77

The math of what they risk to run Curlin again. Ghostzapper is a good example. Ghostzapper covered 111 mares his first season with 84 live foals at 100K a pop. 8.4 mil for the first season vs 3.5 mil for his career and without the expenses of racing. He covered 117 mares this year so one could reasonably expect another 8.5 mil in the bank for his efforts this year.

Curlin made more money and in my opinion is better bred. Ghostzappers DP is 7-1-6-0-0 (14). Curlin is 9-3-8-0-0 (20). He should command even more attention from the breeders. The math gets real sick real fast folks. He could easily cover 175 mares next season at 150k per. Not only can they break down but they can also die prematurely. I would not only want the cash but I would also want to make sure he is in the gene pool.

Irrefutable logic.

Naive question, perhaps: Do today's stallions require pharmaceutical assistance to maintain potency for what looks like more than double the covers of yesteryear's progenitors?